Easy or Crazy with Katrina Ubell, MD | The Bachelor S24, E8

Unedited Transcript

Lynn Grogan 0:00
Alright, welcome back to the bachelor life coach podcast. Today we’re talking about season 24, episode eight of the Bachelor. And with me today I have master certified life and weight loss coach Katrina, you about who also happens to be my boss. So can you introduce yourself?

Katrina Ubell 0:21
So I’m Katrina Ubell I’m a life coach and certified master certified life and weight loss coach, like you said, I also am a medical doctor, but no longer in practice. I was practicing for 10 years as a pediatrician, and then fell in love with coaching and it helped me solve my weight problem and so now I spend my days as Do you, helping a women physicians in clinical practice to lose weight permanently and we just have the best time ever and we love our clients superduper a

Lynn Grogan 0:50
lot. I know so much. I was like coaching some of them this morning and I probably laugh just as much as I’m very serious coach.

Katrina Ubell 0:59
The best and we look So much so and I know many of them are listening. So we both say hi.

Lynn Grogan 1:05
Okay, so we have so much to talk about today. This was a ridiculously awesome episode where they have to say that I am.

Katrina Ubell 1:12
I’m so glad that this was my week.

Lynn Grogan 1:19
I was thinking that too and I had no idea that like when you go all in on something Katrina, you go like all in

Katrina Ubell 1:26
one, I have to say that I listened to the well, I watch I was I was looking back because my husband was actually asking me how many of these couples actually have like, stayed together? And we watched in the beginning. I actually kind of I thought maybe as one or two seasons, but we probably watch more like four or five when I went back and like oh, yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, I remember that one too. So way back in the day, like I love the The Bachelorette with Meredith and Ian. Oh my god, I loved him so much. And Trista and Ryan like, I was so happy and Ryan one, you know, but then like we had kids and You know, my oldest is 14 which really kind of, you know dates how long the show’s been around then we just got out of it. You know, a lot of it kind of felt like it was the same thing on repeat. So I haven’t watched it in so many years. And then when you came up with this idea, I was like, This is so fun. Absolutely. Like, I have to watch the whole season so that I know what’s actually going on. I can’t just like watch one episode.

And yes, like you said, I’m just this is why

I don’t watch it right? Because I’m completely sucked in. Like I have to watch it again because have to be prepared. Have you made my kids know, they’re like, what’s that show? You have to watch? Because they’re going to be on

the podcast. So funny. Like

Lynn Grogan 2:35
Yeah, you’re like, and I’ve been googling things and listening to other bachelor podcast and listening to your podcast. I was like, no, yes. I was like, Yes.

Katrina Ubell 2:46
I’ve also like okay, after this

is done, I really should not watch anymore. Because it really becomes like such a time suck in some

ways, but they are it is a lot of fun. And even my husband said to me yesterday morning, after we watched this last episode, He’s like, well, I’m thinking about it all day. And now I’m for sure gonna have to watch the rest of

the finish up the season. So I know what happens.

Lynn Grogan 3:11
So funny. I know I was like, Oh, I should come by Katrina on to the next season. I was like, oh, but then she has to watch it all.

Katrina Ubell 3:19
You know all supporting you and your podcast.

Lynn Grogan 3:23
That’s my job. That’s a good boss, one must watch The Bachelor employee.

We need to talk about this show recap and we need to dish

Katrina Ubell 3:35
Yeah, this was my condition. I was like I will come on but I don’t want to coach the whole time. I also want to get

gossipy.

I know about the ridiculousness that is the show.

Lynn Grogan 3:44
Yes. Because often you have to be so prim and proper on your own podcast. And so now it’s time

Katrina Ubell 3:49
you want you know,

yeah, this is this is a really good opportunity to just, you know, offer up your opinions. And then we’ll get into the coaching stuff because these people all need so much help. So Okay, it’s so much easier to think that we know how to live other people’s lives.

When what we see is like such a massively edited down version of what actually happened.

Lynn Grogan 4:12
I love that over and over again. Right, right, right. Unless he doesn’t, okay, like we’re going to do the recap. Let’s see, so they leave Lima and they head back to United States for hometowns. So firstly, going to Hannah ends in Knoxville and they throw some axes. Yeah, and then we do

Katrina Ubell 4:31
know he needs to prove that he’s a manly man, which is kind of funny. I’ve been thinking about that, like the manly man kind of thing. And being tough and I’m like, you know, I mean, obviously Peters a pilot. I mean, it’s, you know, I’m clearly those female pilots, but like, very much a male dominated, you know, I would say in general, and I think that’s, you know, pretty manly, but he’s not an extra or like, he’s not a lumberjack. No,

by any stretch.

Lynn Grogan 4:58
He was very proud of himself. When he got That login half though.

Katrina Ubell 5:01
Yes, yeah,

I think he was like, Okay, well, all these women are watching me and there’s cameras on me. I’m just gonna put all my effort into it and see what happens.

Lynn Grogan 5:11
And then what did they do? They go over to her house that night. And first

Katrina Ubell 5:16
they read the love letter. All right. Wait wasn’t fast. a love letter? Yes. So he know she had written him a little love letter things that she loved about him last week. And so he wrote her one. And I actually thought it was pretty sweet, to be honest,

Lynn Grogan 5:32
sweet, and in his writing. So he in his handwriting,

Katrina Ubell 5:37
yes. And I think that that was really genuinely from him. Like, I don’t think that was a producer encouraged thing, although with the show, you just don’t ever know. But I did. What I noticed about it, though, was when you even looked at some of the things that were written that they didn’t say, you know, they didn’t talk about in the clips. I mean, there are all these things in there that you We don’t know about them. Like, it just was so glaring to me how little we know about their interactions on the show, like it’s so edited down, and so sent through this specific lens to make it very dramatic for us, as my husband likes to say, is it the most dramatic money ever? Is this one the most dramatic ever? You know, we don’t really know. So like, even at the end when they say like, you know, they’re the clumsy couple or something. I was like, Well, I mean, we know he’s clumsy because he cut his head. How is she clumsy? Like we don’t even know some of these sort of like inside jokey types of hands that they have, or her naming her dresses. I’m like, I want to know the names of the dresses. You know, so so I thought that was very sweet. And it actually gave me a sense that there’s a little more to the relationship than we’ve seen on the show because to me, I haven’t seen that much between them. In fact, I find him to be quite reserved. Oh, hardly. I like her a lot but I find her hard to hard to

Lynn Grogan 6:59
read. Yeah, very hard to read. And I mean, I thought it was interesting too, because like in all of these hometowns, and he did not ask for the Father’s blessing to get married, which they usually do,

Katrina Ubell 7:11
I was just gonna say, remind me is that with it? I don’t I don’t remember that.

No, well, I mean, well, I have other thoughts, how none of them are probably the right person for him. So maybe that’s why or because so many of these families were so intense with him, that maybe that’s why he didn’t do it. I don’t know. But ultimately, then he meets his family. And I thought they were very sweet. I thought, you know, she lives at home with them. So they haven’t seen her now in two months, I think with no community. Yeah. It’s been

Lynn Grogan 7:42
a while. Yeah.

Katrina Ubell 7:43
Because at first I was like, wow, they’re really emotional. And then I realized, well, I mean, she’s been gone

Lynn Grogan 7:47
the first time that they hadn’t talked to her two months straight. Yeah.

Katrina Ubell 7:49
Right. And, and, you know, they sent her off to Los Angeles doing this crazy thing, and so they’re excited that she’s back in that kind of thing. Totally. Then

Father, there’s so many memes out there now being created about him where he’s like, Don’t do it. Don’t tell her don’t use that word Don’t tell her that you’re that you love her if you don’t really

think about that.

Lynn Grogan 8:16
Oh my gosh, what did I think about that? Yes, I well I thought that was like really funny because I’m like, yeah, no Peters about to tell him that he loves her. And to get that ultimatum from the parent was just like of course he has to say that he’s on TV. They probably even coached him to say that like it’s okay to give him the warning. Yeah, I thought it was sweet and and totally in line with what I thought her dad would be like.

Katrina Ubell 8:42
Like, like he was his whole face with the whole time he was just like this whole nonsense. This bachelor nonsense is a whole load of BS like I have a feeling he hasn’t been behind it the whole entire time. And something I read online was saying that Hannah and was kind of convinced to do it by another friend that she has who was on it. Another Hannah or something. And so I’m sure he has been just not into this whole idea from the gecko. And then now he’s got to be on TV, and then all dolled up and like this. It’s like all this drama and he’s like, Listen two months, and you had like, two dates with this guy. And now you’re saying you’re in love. Like, I’m sure he’s just so pragmatic. He’s like, this

Lynn Grogan 9:19
is just like, I’d roll my eyes, but that would look bad.

My daughter and all the grown ass man, so Right, exactly. Exactly.

But Peter, go out. That’s it.

Katrina Ubell 9:31
Exactly. Exactly. So

I thought it was kind of sweet. What they what they shared. I know a lot of people are not for him, but I thought it was sweet. I liked her from the beginning. I liked her because I felt like she knew what she wanted. And she was there to get to know Peter, which is the point right? And the whole beginning. I was like, Listen, they are going about this the wrong way. Lots of thoughts about how to get to this point where you actually do get to know the bachelor Yeah, better. It’s worked for her even with champion gate and all the other drama that ensued, but I thought it was really sweet that they shared that moment. And then he was saying, you know, say it again, that she loved him. Because again, like he was like a little needy, right? Because he’s so like, Okay, I’m gonna want me as much as I want them. And so I think he just like, eats that up that she wants him and he is like, oh my gosh. So I wonder how much of his attraction to her is because she’s attracted to him and she’s verbalizing it.

Lynn Grogan 10:31
Well, he said that so many times. Like, I just want somebody to want me as much as I want them. And so here you go, Peter on a silver platter. Yeah.

Katrina Ubell 10:38
When it makes sense with the Hannah brown Bachelorette. Right? Like he wanted her so badly and she didn’t reciprocate and he’s still recovering from that, I think. And so bedtime is kind of like I just want someone I don’t want to go through that kind of a thing again, except that’s part of the deal of finding a partner. Unfortunately,

Lynn Grogan 10:56
unfortunately,

Katrina Ubell 10:59
prevent that, but Yeah,

yeah. So I thought I I thought that it was a sweet family. I thought that her sister was really nice. I thought it was it was a nice little segment.

Lynn Grogan 11:09
Did you notice how three of the four families had three daughters and the bachelorette? Or, you know, the contestant was the oldest daughter. I just thought that was so interesting.

Katrina Ubell 11:19
I think it’s also just was interesting that there were often like people in the room around the table that they didn’t introduce. Yeah, like this the boyfriend is there a brother? Is this like a cousin? Who are these people? And I know they are so pressed for time, right? I’m sure lunch are just like cutting out massive amounts. The other thing did you notice how they are all sitting down to basically Sham meals, like food in front of them? They cheers and then they immediately get up with all the food on their plates. Just probably ice cold because, you know, they never know. It seems like they’re going to be walking in and then they get up to go share their little moments and then they’re done. Oh, I know. Even like getting to know each other. No, not at all.

Lynn Grogan 11:59
When I think The only food consumed was maybe in the next day with Kelsey and Des Moines, where they have crab Rangoon. Right. Good,

Katrina Ubell 12:05
right. So they basically have like one bite of it. And they’re like, Oh, that’s what that was so good. They go into it like already having eaten. Oh, I’m a manufacturer kind of a kind of inexperienced. Yeah,

Lynn Grogan 12:17
they’re probably it’s just that out. It’s bad for you. It’s been sitting out more than four hours.

Katrina Ubell 12:22
Because you remember early on when Madison got that first one on one date, and he took her to his parents wedding like vow renewal. That actually seemed like a real family event. Yeah. And they took segments from it, and they actually spent time together, doing some like this a meaningful thing with his family. It’s unfortunate that these hometown experiences are not like that. Like he doesn’t really spend time like yeah, they spend time together alone in the hometown but it I think it sounds like a big part of that the purpose of that is trying to get to know the family except they don’t really not really not really that interesting. Now, I also thought it was interesting with Hannah and how Peter said that he likes the emotional response of her family to see her because his family so like that, like, it seems to me from so much of what he said that he’s really looking for somebody who has a family life that’s very similar to his. He is like I see my parents relationship and what our families like and how we treat each other, inspire each other. And that is exactly what I’m looking for. Which I think is really interesting because I think there’s pluses and minuses to be looking for like a specific type or specific family. I think you can overlook some really good opportunities if you are so dialed in on that. But also, if that’s something that’s really important to you, and you want that then there’s nothing wrong with that. No, nothing I think circles back later when at the rose ceremony,

Lynn Grogan 13:45
I think so do yourselves here. Yeah. Okay, so next hometown, Kelsey, into Boise.

Katrina Ubell 13:51
Which by the way, these did not go in order apparently. But the word on the street is that this is not the order.

Lynn Grogan 13:56
Oh, I never did you notice how they’re all standalone. It’s not like you are Stand Alone.

Katrina Ubell 14:00
Yeah, no. And a first sure put the most dramatic one at the end of quarter 104. So yeah, this is not how this went. In fact, I was listening to different podcasts where they were saying Hannah Ann’s was the last one. And if that is the case, it would make a lot of sense because of some other experiences that he had, like this one finally went so well, that that might be why he was feeling like so connected to her and her family.

Moines. Yes, Moines, Iowa, which

Lynn Grogan 14:30
we’re both from Wisconsin. Have you been to Des Moines? I have.

Katrina Ubell 14:34
I have been to Iowa. I don’t remember it was mine though. I think I went there for a night or two just to interview for residency.

Remember where I even was?

Lynn Grogan 14:46
It’s, you know, I like I have no memories of Des Moines. I just know I’ve been there. Been there. So you know, and now we’ve kind of been there with Kelsey. Yeah, I’m, yeah, they go and stomp grapes for the wind. Clearly.

Katrina Ubell 14:58
Take grapes and not wine grapes,

right? Did you I thought that was like someone went to the pic and save and like

that was some interns job

to pull all the grapes off the vine. Stick them in that right? Anyway because again like they’re seriously making wine in Iowa. I

mean they make wine in Michigan. Oh yeah, Door County Wisconsin and stuff. Yeah, that’s what they’re saying at one point they’re like, Oh, that was really sweet.

Unknown Speaker 15:25
Yeah, okay, so they

Katrina Ubell 15:26
they stop and they kind of pretend to dance. I have to tell you that whole like, I’m just I’m not I’m not team Kelsey. I just I’m not I think that she is so manufactured. Like, I didn’t feel like she could even like really open up and have a good time like it felt so needy to me about like, Is this like intense? Like, Brian kinda got the right like, this is what we’re doing like it’s all going well right because I really liked this guy and it felt it just to me, it felt so repellent like my feeling about All of it was just like Peter, run the other person. Like just run,

run.

Lynn Grogan 16:07
Oh, I thought so too. I was just like she’s about to crack at some point she is going to crack. And I don’t

Katrina Ubell 16:12
have a problem with her being emotional. But like she, when she kept talking about like how scared she is now we’re getting ahead, but she keeps talking like, it’s so scary. I’m falling out of them. It’s so scary. Like, that’s so interesting how you aren’t just excited for it. I mean, obviously, that there’s there’s different ways of thinking about it. But she constantly goes back to that word that she’s so afraid. I’m like, Huh, that’s really interesting. I think it’s because she’s not confident in herself really well,

Lynn Grogan 16:37
nor in her relationship with Peter.

Katrina Ubell 16:39
Right, right, right. Yeah. You know, yeah. So they go to her house, and they meet the sisters. And we later find out that the man there is not her father. Step at her step dad. They don’t address the fact that she’s reconnected with her bio father at all.

Lynn Grogan 16:59
No, not at all. I’m not in Alaska episode. Yeah. I mean, maybe that came up and we just didn’t see it like it didn’t fit my line, Shelley? I don’t know. It just seemed weird that she made such a big deal of it the previous episode and then

Katrina Ubell 17:13
nothing because remember her mom doesn’t know that she reached out to him and her mom seemed like totally dialed in her mama eyes, by the way are gorgeous. I just want to say

right, but so then he gets worn again, right? I don’t break my girl’s heart. Which I think this is hilarious. We’ll get into it in the culture, but like how they are just so like, Hey, listen, I’m just gonna have to say this. Don’t break your heart. Well, you do understand the process. There’s four of them left and one will make it so. Just Yeah, you say that your daughter’s heart won’t be the one that’s broken. And I

Lynn Grogan 17:51
my guess is he already knew he was sending Kelsey home. So there Yeah,

Katrina Ubell 17:55
I think so too. I think so too. Yeah, I think so too. I think I think When he met them, he already knew because they’d had that date. It was so like, just flat for me. Like they didn’t really seem like they’re having that much fun. Like even when the producer clearly asked him to describe his relationship, like compares relationship with ILC with a type of wine, you know, like spicy notes and like the beads, whatever like it was, it was just so like, not believable at all. I was just playing a role he was playing. Yeah, he was thinking that’s kind of the heart when they know Yeah, I’m gonna let this one go. And I’ve got to pretend like I really want to be with this other one over here. And instead, I have to pretend

Lynn Grogan 18:36
it’s either harder or easier, right? Because then if you’re acting maybe then you don’t have to both act apart and then also act like you’re getting and falling in love. I mean, seems like I kind of

Katrina Ubell 18:46
feel though like if you have if you have a conscience, you might just feel bad. You’re leading the person on really, you know, you’re pretending and then like playing it out where you’re not like, Okay, I’m over it so that they know Yeah, totally. Right. But And I mean, I think what I think is so interesting is he probably could have decided till the producers Look, I didn’t want to go to her. Yeah, but he has to because they want to have a certain number of episodes. So they’re kind of stuck.

Lynn Grogan 19:13
I mean, like in Colton season previous to this, he actually did narrow it down to three and he only did three hometowns, but I think they can only do sway from norm. So my so like, no, and Peter’s such a people pleaser, like he was not going to be a spot down at all. Yeah, and he plays a very good role here because she was surprised that it wasn’t her. Like she’s shocked. Which right, you know, like, I don’t know, for the rest of the girls. They’re like, I would kind of be questioning a little bit like Okay, wait, Kelsey is super shocked. So she obviously believed his act. Knowing that you know, like, I would kind of go home I wonder if this is all a show or if this is real.

Katrina Ubell 19:50
I don’t know. I wonder though, because they know of her antics that there. They might just be like, she’s a little

cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Oh, that’s true. You know, they seem to tolerate her.

That’s that’s my feeling too. I mean, I was listening to this other podcast and they’re like, Oh, she’s like the only adult and I was like, I am not getting that vibe at all from her. The vibe I get from her is like, ridiculously needy. Like, Oh, yes, he’ll say like, just like, yeah, just so so so so needy, like such an energy drain?

Lynn Grogan 20:24
Yes. Yes. So, Oh, my goodness. So let’s move on to Alabama with Madison, Alabama. They play basketball. He gets warned first by Charles Barkley. Yes. It was so random. I’m like, Man on the screen. Glad when she said Charles Barkley, because I didn’t know did you?

Katrina Ubell 20:43
I didn’t know. But he showed them when they walked in. They showed actually a statue of him. And on the back there was a banner that says Charles Barkley. Oh, but I didn’t know who he was. Yeah,

Lynn Grogan 20:52
they did lay that up for me. And I just

Katrina Ubell 20:54
Yes, I did not know that he had gone to Auburn now because I don’t really follow college basketball. So I didn’t know that. But apparently Auburn and basketball is a really big deal.

Lynn Grogan 21:04
Now we know good, good information for us to have it. Right course.

Katrina Ubell 21:08
I thought that date was pretty cute. They had a lot of fun. The head coach was the same Bruce pearl. I think like he was he was he was a delight. It was fun. They had a good time. She’s clearly good at basketball. Right. So that was nice. My only complaint was literally Why are they laying, like on each other in the middle of the basketball court making out at the very end, like right in the middle of the logo for the school, right? Like these producers. I know.

Unknown Speaker 21:37
I know. That I have met

Lynn Grogan 21:39
adorable day and she’s so cute. Like, I think she’s kind of cute, really

Katrina Ubell 21:44
adorable needs. Yeah, I think she has a really good heart. I mean, anybody whose job is being a foster parent coordinator. I think she’s got good intentions. She does. Yeah.

Lynn Grogan 21:55
And then they go home.

Unknown Speaker 21:59
It’s just you know,

Katrina Ubell 22:00
Not really learned that much about her family until right about now.

Lynn Grogan 22:04
Right? Like it I it was shocking to me like midway through the season when she took like mentioned I can’t remember maybe was even last episode how religious she is. I’m like, No clue whatsoever here we have something she has decided apparently from a wee girl that she’s gonna save herself for marriage. Yeah, did you notice how her parents just like danced around they would not say the word sex. Hilarious hilarious

Katrina Ubell 22:27
so I read talking about her purity and like

Lynn Grogan 22:36
I think it’s awesome that she like has what she knows what she wants, which is like, most of the other contestants seem to like waffle in between a lot of things. She knows what she wants. She’s just so afraid to tell Peter or something. I’m just very

Katrina Ubell 22:50
puzzled by the whole thing. I honest to goodness and have been thinking like, it’s apparently very clear that Peter had sex with Hannah Brown. I’m in the windmill four times they talk about it in the beginning episodes, they talked about it all the time. There’s like literally no way she could not notice, even before going into it. And this is a really big deal for like, truly a deal breaker for her. It really makes me wonder why she’s even there.

Lynn Grogan 23:19
I know. I actually

Katrina Ubell 23:20
kind of wonder if she got on there with the intent of like, I want to spread my message to the world. Like this is a thing people do this. And kind of didn’t expect to really like him as much as she does maybe, or whatever it is, but I’m just I just literally it’s like, you know, when something just seems weird, it’s like it just doesn’t the pieces don’t connect. Yes. It’s It’s so clearly obvious that he does not agree with her on the premarital sex issue. Oh, right. Yeah. And it’s such a deal breaker for her it appears Why would it make any logical sense to come on the show?

Lynn Grogan 23:55
Well, it also seemed like a probably a deal breaker breaker for her parents. Right?

Katrina Ubell 24:00
And she cares so much about what her parents think like, there’s no way that she’s gonna marry him if she doesn’t get their blessing. And if they’re on TV, you know, they see him on TV having sex with the other women. Right? So just even knowing his background, it just the whole thing’s very puzzling to me.

Lynn Grogan 24:16
It’s puzzling. But now that you bring it up, I mean, a lot of people do come on here for the quote, unquote, wrong reasons. Like maybe it does have something to do with her wanting to promote the religious side of things. And like, maybe like, that’s her message, and she wants to spread it somehow.

Katrina Ubell 24:29
And that’s maybe why she’s waited this long to bring it up. I mean, I mean, obviously, the producers know about this, you know, with her. And so I really wonder if she wants to tell them sooner. And they were like, no, don’t you can’t tell them. Don’t tell them. Oh, man, something like that. I mean, I can’t imagine what that experience was like, when they keep saying they’re like, this is just so hard. I sometimes think like, Oh, yeah, it’s so hard to like, sit around all day, talk to people get dressed up really pretty and go on a date every now and then. But I’m like, No, I think it’s like emotionally very challenging. And just dealing with everything they have to deal with other Oh, totally. I think that’s what’s so hard about it. And we can’t even probably begin to understand what they will go through.

Lynn Grogan 25:09
I don’t think so. The show Yeah, we couldn’t know unless we were there. Yeah. So yeah. So I mean, again, parent morning, we have the parental warning from dads.

Katrina Ubell 25:19
One was like, How do I know that? You really mean what you say? Yes. And I could see Peters like wall. I mean, I don’t know how to assure you even my husband was like, I mean, what do you say to that?

Oh, right. Yes. I feel love like

Lynn Grogan 25:37
producers in the background, just waving their hands going. No, don’t answer that. Do you know?

Katrina Ubell 25:43
I mean, I really do think that Peter did a good job answering it. It felt very much like a media trained person answering it like knowing the right things to say and in talking around it and things like that. But what was he really supposed to say? You know,

Lynn Grogan 25:56
I know and then you know, her dad is just like, Well, I know you have Other experiences going on with women, aka like you might be banging them? I don’t know. Like,

Katrina Ubell 26:06
relationship other relationship. Yeah, I mean, I’m sure for a family like there’s two where they’re so religious and so conservative that It surprises me that they even supported medicine going on the show because I’m sure also for her if they really felt like it was a bad idea, she wouldn’t have done it.

Lynn Grogan 26:25
Oh, true. No, she would not have so there’s something going on there. I would love I’d love to be behind the scenes on that decision making process.

Katrina Ubell 26:32
That’s why I wonder if if she sold it to them as I’m going to go on there and talk about purity or whatever. Yeah. Not having sex before marriage. And you know, let people know more about that. And they’re like, yeah, yeah, you shouldn’t go do that. And I don’t like none of the families ever thought that their that their daughters would make it this far. Yeah. How many other efforts 30 women? Yeah, there’s like they’re like that. Yeah. So you know, the chances overall relative Oh,

Lynn Grogan 26:56
yeah. And they’re probably thinking, Oh, my daughter’s too good for this. says she’s gonna get kicked off because she’s not dramatic enough lo and behold,

Katrina Ubell 27:04
maybe I mean it may I mean clearly the women have watched the shows before but I wonder for the men even how many of them I watch it like, do these dads really know? I they really know. Like what happens on the show? I mean, it kind of makes you wonder, right? So like speaking

Lynn Grogan 27:18
of dramatic, I mean, yes, Virginia Beach. The last one I want or the last hometown started out okay. Like they did okay. They had her cute dog at the beach. Good.

Katrina Ubell 27:30
They did. They had a good time they I felt good about that even though I think that she really has a lot of personal issues she needs to work through first before she gets into relationship with anybody. I did think that their date went really well and yeah, even what just jumping out a little bit even later when they see each other and he’s upset. She’s like, what like She’s so excited. She doesn’t know how excited any any issues, but they’re finishing up their date at the beach after the country music singer came and the song was so appropriate. Right? Like

I don’t want easy I went crazy. I was like, I know the situation really well.

Lynn Grogan 28:09
Greatly appropriate. Yeah. And as he’s leaving there, he gets pulled aside by an ex girlfriend of his, which is also appropriate considering what happened on his first one on one date with Victoria where her ex boyfriend happened to be the one singing. So yeah, his ex girlfriend of many, many years ago, comes on and says, you know, warns him more warnings for Peter warns him against Victoria. And so save, ruin relationships, and then she just walks away leaving Peter puzzled.

Katrina Ubell 28:40
Me Peter just literally believes whatever the last person you talked to tells him. I found this really interesting. He was like completely crestfallen. You could tell him his face and confused, which is always hard when someone’s like, Hey, I’m going to drop this bomb on you. And that’s all I’m going to say like, I’m not going to actually give you any details. You know, we don’t know how much was edited out if he really was able to get some details where she wasn’t willing to say them or, you know, who knows what. But he really looked, you know, so sad. so upset that also, it bugged me that he wasn’t like, well, that’s interesting. I should really talk to Victoria about this and see like, my, my experience with her has been one way. Someone else says something about her. But he immediately just believes morosa story as like the truth and essentially like vilifies Victoria immediately, which I felt was a little bit unfair to Victoria. Like he just doesn’t know how to manage himself very well. This is clearly hours later, and he’s so worked up now, it could be that the producers were egging him

Lynn Grogan 29:44
on the hotel. I’m sure they’re probably like, what do you think it means? And then he’s like, spinning the stories. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. I mean, to the point where Yeah, they get there. They have a huge fight about it. And he doesn’t even meet her parents.

Katrina Ubell 29:58
Yeah. This whole thing was Yeah, so, so disappointing. We’ll talk when we get to the coaching, I know more about what happens there. But yeah, I mean, it was just so so dramatic in the drama sense, not in the, like well crafted drum

Lynn Grogan 30:19
corps course you know, and then she goes back the next day to try to kind of make things up and he’s basically like, well, I’ll think about it. So you leave her hanging on that and then,

Katrina Ubell 30:27
you know, eventually the guy thought for sure that he was gonna let her go. I thought like that said, He’s over it. He’s done with all the drama with her,

Lynn Grogan 30:34
but I didn’t at all. I was like, Vince, before the episode, Kelsey was going home and so I was like, she’s dying. Somehow. She’s gonna I

Katrina Ubell 30:44
was like, really worried he was gonna keep Kelsey, I was like, No, you have to send her home though. Could you send two of them home? How about you just do that?

And I’m like, No, cuz he’s gonna

have the opportunity to have sex with three women. So of course he’s not going to get rid of one of them. I know.

Knowing how Remember to him? Yeah, yeah.

Lynn Grogan 31:03
You know, they get to the rose ceremony. Yes, he sends Kelsey home. Everyone else stays, you know, they’re gonna head off to Australia where they’re going to have the next dramatic moments. Which Did you notice in the teaser? They’re all houses together usually they are inside patients. I

Katrina Ubell 31:21
yes, they they are. I actually wonder if they the producers from early on were like Peter is way too boring or the season is way too boring. Like what can we do to make this like more interesting? Or maybe they’re realizing you know what, none of them are actually creating, like a real relationship. Like I like you. And I was talking about Meredith and Ian and dad and Ryan back in the day. Like, I felt like their love. I felt like you know, like, I was rooting so hard for them and I just like, wanted to work out so much for them. And I don’t have that with any of these women like not even oh noes. So I have I feel like they’re probably like, Okay, well, if we’re not going to get to that like true, deep love match like connection here, then we’ve got to create something else to make this interesting. So people will watch and maybe that’s why they’re doing it. I think maybe also they know the whole Madison thing. And because whatever Madison says about Peter, having sex with other people influences their experiences, maybe they’re thinking we need to get them all together. Because in that teaser, they’re talking about how they’re like, that’s ridiculous that she’s determining what we’re doing.

Lynn Grogan 32:28
Oh, yeah. I mean, that’s obviously why they kept them together so that they would talk like, Oh, damn, what happened on your date? Like, usually they don’t have that opportunity. But you’re totally right. I mean, I also find think that this whole season was them. Like, how do we make a TV show out of this season that has fallen flat,

Katrina Ubell 32:45
boring

Lynn Grogan 32:47
hours of footage, like how do we both together and kudos to them? Because I feel like it has been entertaining, like

Katrina Ubell 32:54
I said, has been entertaining. I often feel like it’s just really at the expense of these young women. No And, you know, and like, when they played football and you know, just remember Natasha, I mean, poor Natasha got strung along for so long. She got no opportunities to be with Peter. She gave that show like a month and a half of her life. And like for literally nothing.

Lynn Grogan 33:17
I was like,

Katrina Ubell 33:18
oh my goodness gracious nails. I’m sure it’ll work out for her. But yeah, sometimes I’m thinking like, this is like borderline emotional abuse what they’re doing.

Lynn Grogan 33:28
I know. Oh, my gosh, shall we coach Katrina? Let’s do it. Let’s do

God first we have to continue talking about these parents. Because, like, all warnings, like I’m sure he got to know them. I’m sure they had a lovely time. But all we really see is them warning Peter, and I think been inspired by the way that you teach about parenting, because I am not a parent. And so I’m always just like, whoo, I coach people on and so I think your take is so interesting compared to like, what These parents think that they can control and what they can manage and their children’s minds like what we have. So what’s your take on all this?

Katrina Ubell 34:07
Well, you know what I always say, just to follow up on what you were saying, the way that I coach on parenting is that your only job as a parent, is to love your child support them and provide them with opportunities. And what they do with that is their own choice. Like you cannot control that. And it’s in our attempt to control it, that we create a lot of negative emotion for ourselves. And it generally doesn’t work out very well like for sure when you are growing up, and especially into the teen years and then onward. When you feel like your parent is trying to control you, you often want to do the opposite of it. So I just really work on encouraging people to just love their children as they are know that they’re going to make decisions in their lives that are part of their own life journey and they don’t have to agree with them. Because really what the parent thinks isn’t necessarily relevant, especially once they’re adults, which they are on a show. And, you know, that’s like the parenting of a grown child, you know, like have an adult child. It’s like, it really doesn’t go well. Onward when you feel like you’ve got this person who’s constantly telling you how you should live life. Now, what’s interesting with these parents is I mean, we have Hannah and living at home, we have Madison living at home, Victoria, I mean, do they all live at home, they might as possible Peter

Lynn Grogan 35:29
lives at home,

Katrina Ubell 35:30
like it’s possible to live. Like they might all live at home. And so I think it’s even harder to kind of create that separation. Now remember, Kelly, the lawyer from Chicago, like, I’m quite certain she lives on her own and she’s much more Oh, yeah, I think she’s probably way more mature than anybody on that show. You know, and, like, there’s just it’s, she’s living like a true adult life, where these parents I mean, even Madison, like she’s just like, needs her parents approval because she’s still very much in this childlike role with them, but Here’s the thing, how their parenting or how they’re showing up is how the vast majority of parents will ask, oh, yeah, people agree, they think that this is a good way to act. They think that giving a warning to the sky is going to somehow protect their daughter from experiencing a negative emotion. And they just don’t have that control. If anything, it just kind of creates like a really uncomfortable pressure kind of a situation, right? It’s because it’s like, hey, man stands like, Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t say that. You love her. And then, you know, a second later, it seems like to us he’s like, I love you. And you’re like, he did it. should he do it? Is he going against her like what you know? So I I just think that a alternative way of approaching it is, I just love my daughter. I’m here to support her, which is why I’m here in this hometown. I’m continuing to provide her with this opportunity, whatever opportunities come from this show by being here, and I would just really try to enjoy being with my daughter and enjoy getting to know this young man. Right, like just getting to know who he is as a person rather than like, here’s the ultimatum. Here’s the warning. Here’s the rules that we have in our family. I think that it doesn’t really I don’t see it actually helping anybody know, actually prevent any heartbreak.

Lynn Grogan 37:17
No, it doesn’t prevent heartbreak and it sets up this weird dynamic. Like, let’s say Peter does end up with one of these girls, they started the relationship off with I don’t trust you. Here’s a warning. Where do you go from there?

Katrina Ubell 37:29
Well, I think that so many dad do that. Right? Let’s look kind of that classic jokey, like, you know, I want to be the first one to open the door when the boy comes to fit my daughter up for a date and it shows him his gun collection or something like that. You know, it’s all about like intimidation and threats and like, you better treat my daughter well. And I don’t know that there’s anything wrong with setting an expectation for Listen, like I expect you to behave in certain ways and not take advantage of my daughter or whatever, you know, do things that are inappropriate, but

even That. Who knows? That’s not effective really generally, you know, it’s not the the best way to break out the best. And people generally I find really good.

Lynn Grogan 38:10
Yeah, I did think and I think it was Hannah Ann’s mom kind of approached it in the way that you’re suggesting where she was just like, Well, I know you and I trust you. So if you say that you’re feeling what you’re feeling, I support you. 100%

Katrina Ubell 38:21
Yeah, yeah. I mean, here’s the thing, though. I mean, Hannah Ann’s 23. Madison is 23 Yeah, they’re so young. They don’t know anything. And so I could, I could see the parents to sort of being like, I haven’t lived on your own like, okay, let’s see. But you know, what I thought would be interesting to know is the parents love stories, right? Like maybe they were super young and they’re like, wow, we were what were we doing like we were completely not prepared. So listen, don’t repeat the same mistake like obviously it’s worked out for us but you know, don’t do that or, you know, just kind of made me wonder how much that might factor into it as well.

Lynn Grogan 38:57
And with Victoria F’s parents, they tease that at their Like, no, I think this is, you know, this is totally enough time like his mom was or her mom was said this would be like, I think your sister said like, can

Katrina Ubell 39:07
you even follow up with someone this quickly? and her mom was like, Yeah, he definitely can.

So

I think that it’s just an interesting situation. I think, though from, you know, all of them, if not the majority of them. It’s such a manufactured kind of situation to be sitting there. I think they rent homes for them and probably in many cases. So they’re, you know, at this like fake house, all dolled up, like the way they don’t normally look with, you know, fake food in front of them. Yes. And they’ve had to manufacture this kind of meaningful little snippet of connection. And then they have to have the conversations. It’s kind of the producers might even say, listen, you’re going to have to do the dad You have to sit down and and have like a really, you know, serious conversation. Yeah. Okay. What am I gonna say, you know,

Lynn Grogan 39:57
Oh, sure. I’m sure that heavily,

Katrina Ubell 40:00
heavily Yeah, it’s it’s so it’s just again, so manufactured, it’s so hard to even really know, like I am so sure every single person who’s on that show is like, Listen, you don’t even know that you don’t even know 10% of it. Like, it’s just there’s so much more than happen.

Lynn Grogan 40:16
Oh, I know. I know. And so it’s, I feel bad for the parents, because if they don’t come on, they look a certain way. If they decide that they don’t want to be on the show, it looks like they’re not supporting their kids. Right?

Katrina Ubell 40:27
Right. They kind of are stuck, they kind of have to do it. And then they want to present themselves and their family in a certain way. And that they’re not in control of either like I was thinking about Madison’s family like it looks so traditional. Like her mom’s was like very much this just kind of quiet. You know, the man is the the in charge of our family kind of relationship. And maybe that is really what the relationship is like also, maybe not the right kind of creating this scenario, and then we buy into it as Oh

Lynn Grogan 40:58
yeah, we buy in her big time. Yeah, yeah. So shall we move on to number two?

Katrina Ubell 41:03
Number two. Okay, so Peter is in love with two women. And in the teaser, he says he’s a lovable three. Uh huh. So typically we do not.

Sorry.

Got that all the way. So typically, we do not think of people being in romantic love with more than one person at a time. And so my husband, I had a big conversation about this. He was even saying how that’s just like so wrong and like, how is that possible? And I was saying, Well, here’s the thing. The only reason we think that’s so weird, is because it’s very much a cultural norm that we’ve been raised to believe from the time we were little like, I don’t know anybody who was in a polygamous relationship, and I know that you didn’t either and the vast majority people don’t like even the messages we get as children are like You know, a committed relationship is two people. Right? And that’s it. And so we think like you can’t let have love for more than one person. But I was saying, Well, you know, that’s a really common issue that comes up for women after they’ve had their first child, because they love this child so deeply. And they think there’s no possible way I’m going to be able to love this new baby, if you have no child, like, love another baby, the same way, or as much, and they feel like they think about it as like there’s a finite amount of love that they have to give like, they think well then I’ll give love to the baby. And then my poor first child won’t get as much love like, it’s like a zero sum game, you know, like if there’s someone else and there’s less for the other one. And once you’ve had multiple children, I have three children, you find that that’s not the case at all. You I course completely love all three of my children. So why couldn’t you really feel like a romantic love for three different people at the same time, like I think you probably can. It’s just it’s just such a cultural Nor, like I said that that’s not an okay thing to do that. Yeah, we just are like, that’s not even possible because nobody we know is ever done it. Although I do think it does happen like people with love addiction and things like that or people who have multiple families the same way I think they really think it is possible to I really think it is possible, but I think we’re just not sure yeah, it’s just it seems like super foreign and therefore bad. But I think it is possible that you can do that. And you know, I think that it’s well, I think it’s interesting to discuss is this idea of loving someone being in love with someone and falling in love with something. Yeah. What is what do you think the difference is between like, I love you, I’m in love with you. Or I’m falling in love with you.

Lynn Grogan 43:47
Oh my gosh, I don’t even know anyway you ask you put this in our like our shared doc and I was like thinking about it because I’m like now that I’m Mike on the other side and I’m married. Like I would have answered this so differently 10 years ago, not having I think so. Yeah.

Katrina Ubell 44:02
Yeah. I mean, I’ve been married almost 19 years. So it’s a little harder for me to remember. But sure, yeah. what your thoughts were back then and how it’s different now? I think.

Lynn Grogan 44:12
I think I went into it. I mean, it was before coaching. So I just thought kind of in the same way, Peter did like my heart. Well, just know. And, and I realized after that, like, yeah, there’s a lot more for me that goes into that, you know, yes, there’s that spark. But then there’s also the compatibility portion of it. And so I don’t even know how to answer your question. It’s so interesting. It’s like does it doesn’t even need to be different,

Katrina Ubell 44:37
isn’t even different? I think it’s a really good question. I think it’s really good question. I talked to my husband about it to what his thoughts were about this. And because I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer at all. It’s just interesting, because there appears to be this kind of level of depth or level of seriousness, that they progress along when they use these terms. Like it seems like I’m falling in love with you is like the first step. Then I am in love with you is the next step and then I love you is like No for real now like Yes

Lynn Grogan 45:05
No, you know yeah

Katrina Ubell 45:07
yeah so like I love you seems to be very much like this like grounded foundational emotion and I think being in love talks more I think it just plays more to kind of like the newness, the excitement the intensity that’s there initially and then I’m falling in love is like one step back from that which is I’m starting to get that excitement feeling like I’m starting to Yeah, them some love for you and it’s pretty fun but I don’t really know what’s happening. Like I’m not totally sure about it. I think that might be the different I think that’s how I would use them if I wanted to.

Lynn Grogan 45:50
I never said I was specific for the show because you’re right there is a progression there and like when they’re, you know, starting to fall in love in love. Like there’s more Momentum that’s built and it’s just like most searing it seriousness as you were saying grows.

Katrina Ubell 46:05
Yeah, so so at the end of Hannah Ann’s Yeah, hometown visit, she was like I’m in love with you and then I love you and excited again like he’s like so into that thirsty for it. Yeah. So I think that Yeah, his if really hurt date her hometown was the last one. So he had already Yeah, Madison, Donna Madison, where he got totally grilled by the family about his you know, intentions. And I think it seems to me, the energy I felt for Madison was very much like pulled back like when she was in the in with her family. And she really missed them. And she even said, like, you know, now I’m kind of having second thoughts about things like I think she’s really like, what have I got myself into a little bit and so he It was so intense there for a while he’s still into it, and she’s like, I don’t know. I think she’s kind of backing out a little Kelsey. He knows he doesn’t want to be with Victoria. Africa is a complete, you know what show and so you know, he finally has like an Nice hometown visit with a nice family and a girl who’s into him. So I think he’s just like yes. I know it

Lynn Grogan 47:07
goes back with a song from his and Victoria upstate like, do you want crazy or easy and like, Hannah and seems super easy for him? Yeah, like yeah, she’s willing for love.

Katrina Ubell 47:18
But do you think though that I kind of think he likes the drama? Oh, I tend to it right so I kind of wonder if he thinks that him and would be too boring. Like even when they have that one on one date. And he’s like, you’re not opening up to me and you’re just giving me those? The the standard answers. It wasn’t until she was crying that he was like, oh, okay, she she really is into this. Yeah, at least for the parts that we saw, of course, because we don’t really don’t have them

Lynn Grogan 47:41
well, and like something that’s come up on previous podcast episodes that we’ve had is that Peters mom cries a lot. We see her in clips crying, so Yeah, that’s

Katrina Ubell 47:48
true. Maybe I maybe that really is what he’s used to us. Like women are just like, seriously emotional. I’m like, he would be so bored with me because I’m just not really much of a crier. He’d be like, Okay, what do we do this stomp on your foot like what do we need to do to get some?

Oh my god, I know oh my gosh right yeah.

Lynn Grogan 48:09
Oh my gosh let’s truck right a line. Let’s talk about us. Okay, Marissa. So Peter Peter is met with a with by somebody after his country star or where am I at? Okay Victoria f Peter break for a moment after their date and then this Marissa Peters ex girlfriend comes up and just basically says, Yeah, Victoria is no good. And Peter’s like, as we’ve already talked about, you know, in the intro, like Peter, just like, drink this up, he’s like, Oh, my gosh, I’ve been I think he’s been kind of thinking this all along. And now he has outside proof from somebody in his real world that he knows. Yeah. And he’s just 100% into it and willing to believe those things.

Katrina Ubell 48:55
She has to just been so much drama, that this is just more drama and I think That he probably was so crestfallen and upset about it because he finally had a non crazy date with her and experience with her, and then it ends up blowing up in his face. Oh, totally. And so he just

Lynn Grogan 49:15
believes this. And he’s obviously been stewing on it all day.

Katrina Ubell 49:18
Yeah,

Lynn Grogan 49:18
yeah. And he doesn’t get like, yeah, Victoria the benefit of the doubt, as you’ve mentioned before, like, he just eats it all up, and he’s just like, Okay, well, here’s more evidence. I’m gonna have to bring this to Victoria tonight, no matter what.

Katrina Ubell 49:30
Yeah, but you know, I was just thinking like, he, we keep saying like, he loves all these dramatic women, but he’s dramatic to like he brings, which Victoria actually accuses if I’m him up later, he’s like, What, are you kidding me? Because of course, like, pot calling the kettle black for sure. 100% you know, but, but he really thrives on that drama to like, he wants that excitement. He really wants there to be something fiery, right? Oh, yeah. And so, here it is again, and so He’s kind of like, I don’t know what to make of it, like I’m going to my own thing. Whereas I think other people would be like, well, that’s an interesting tidbit of information. This is obviously one person’s opinion. And, yeah, that’s just a goal based. I mean, the main thing that I’m going to use to determine whether I want to continue with Victoria is my experiences with her. And then yeah, I’ll be wanting to discuss this a little further with her to just find out what her side of the story is. Because here’s the ultimately the thing is like, literally, it doesn’t matter who you are, you can find someone who doesn’t like you who’s gonna say negative things about Yeah, right. So So, you know, of course, he knows versa, distant, distantly, right many, many years ago, but he doesn’t know what her agenda is. She is showing up at this concert to go and tell him. I mean, if she really knew him, she would have his phone number or connections to send them a text to be like, hey, guess well, yeah, I don’t know. I mean, maybe he he she can’t get to him because he’s on the show or something.

Lynn Grogan 50:58
Like you don’t really figured it out.

Katrina Ubell 51:00
You could have figured something out. And I don’t blame her for saying something. I actually think it was pretty brave of her because she seemed pretty, pretty even keel about just like, Hey, I just really think you need to know this because before you know, you really go all the way with this person like and get married to her you should probably know. Yes, history, but also that’s just her thoughts, right? It’s just her opinion about what she’s heard is a lot of it’s just like hearsay. And then she’s like, you know, we’re not friends. And I tried to reach out because we have multiple friends. And I was like, this sounds like a lot of girl drama that she told to pull Peter into. And then he allows himself to be pulled in because he really loves

Lynn Grogan 51:40
that he mistakes drama for passion.

Katrina Ubell 51:43
I think Yeah, I think that’s exactly what it is. And I think that he thinks that everybody’s opinion is important in his kind of,

Lynn Grogan 51:54
Oh, yeah. It takes a village for Peter to make it.

Oh my gosh.

Bagley Well, in the end what she is, quote unquote accusing Victoria of like, Can you really break up another couple that would have been their decision? It wouldn’t mean maybe Victoria contributed to that. Yeah. But really, ultimately would have been that couples decision. So he’s also assuming that Victoria has like this otherworldly power, which none of us,

Katrina Ubell 52:19
none of us have. Exactly. And you’re right, like, I mean, it’s one thing if you know, you’re the other woman in quotes, right, like someone’s married or in a very committed relationship, and then you’re going in and you know, having the affair or something like that. But even so, I I would be interested in just having a conversation about that. Just like Tell me more about your experiences. It’s kind of like with the chase rice thing, you know, turn on like a couple of dates or something like wasn’t that big of a deal? No, she of course blew it up, but very big deal, massive deal and was sobbing and all of that, but it’s kind of like maybe the baby yeah, you could use the words. Yeah, she broke them up. Or they were already on the brink. And the guy basically it was like, yeah, I’m out of this already. It’s just not formal yet or something like not that even necessarily, that’s a good thing to do. Maybe it says a lot about her as a person you don’t know. Yeah, he just jumps to conclusions and I don’t really think it’s fair to Victoria. I think that No, she doesn’t really get a chance to defend herself and then when he does go and talk to her about it, I mean, she took a lot of offense, which actually is our fourth to that so so Peter comes as you know, she can tell right away when he gets out of the car that he is upset she’s like, I can feel your energy like there’s a problem here What’s going on? And it’s so funny how he compares what happened to chase race being at their date. Yeah, he’s like, well, you have an x there I haven’t X to you know, such a distant x and not like oh, was Hannah Brown was there like was right in love with it’s like, you know, something that it didn’t really it didn’t sound like their former relationship was very relevant his life to me. And so then he basically is just like, You know, kind of accuses her of us because that’s really how it felt like to me like, he really was kind of like a little bit like, what do you have to say for yourself? Yeah. And I think she felt so caught off guard completely right. She had no idea that this was coming. And she got really emotional. And honestly, I think what happened is what happens to a lot of us is we go into kind of this fight or flight freeze kind of mode. And in her case, she goes into the fight mode, right? Like she, I don’t even think she was like, actually in her brain anymore. She was just in this, like, I’ve got to get out of here. freaking out, I don’t even know what’s going on. Attack, attack attack. And then he’s like, Whoa, why are you attacking me? And, you know, like, do you ever fight for anything, whatever. And it’s like, she is not even in the same state of mind right now like that. That’s what I think is it really fair, even though I think that she’s not the right person for him and she really does have a lot of personal growth that she needs to do before she’s ready to be in any committed relationship. I do think that the way that that was all handled like she’s just not Someone who in that kind of scenario right as she’s about to go into meet the family bring him home with the family, for her to really be able to stay rationally in her brain and be able to think clearly and show up in the way that she would really want to show up as his you know, kind of girlfriend I guess that’s what yes for him right? And so instead then she gets like all defensive and upset and wants to get away and then he interprets, that is like, you always want to run away, right? Probably, but yes, often she goes to this place. Yes. And, and then they just are so frustrated with each other. She’s just like, forget that. I just want out and he’s upset with that. I kind of see where she’s, it’s part of her defense, right? It’s just part of her, her fighting and fighting. She just wants to run away. Yeah, and get away and protect herself. And so that’s why she’s doing that because the next day, when she shows up at his hotel room, she really does have a lot more insight into what she like just the the gravity of all of it. Like she says, like, I don’t know why I do that, like, I don’t really know. And she said that before, too, like, I’m not sure why I’m like this. And she just doesn’t really have again, like, the personal insight into herself and what makes her tick or really just the emotional maturity to be able to take ownership for that and take responsibility for her role in it. And I think at this point, he’s like, I don’t know what to think. And that’s what I was kind of like, I mean, you know, they didn’t even kiss when they left like, I was like, I knew send her home. So he really wants to work it out. I or maybe he would have if he had really had a better connection with Kelsey.

Lynn Grogan 56:34
That could have been Yeah, like if it was, but there was no contest there for him. I mean, it was interesting to me that it seemed like they didn’t even bring that up again. Like now that they were calmer like hey, that’s kind of weird that this you know, person brought this up but didn’t see me again. It was very strange to me are they

Katrina Ubell 56:52
are they cut that part out? You know, and they discussed it, but yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I think Victoria is so stuck in that situation. Because what is she supposed to say? Like, oh no, she’s a horrible hag like Don’t listen to her. Well, clearly, he has a former relationship and respects her and that kind of thing with mersa. So it’s just a very difficult position that I think they both found themselves in. And he did say at one point, we just do not communicate well, and I would, I would, yes, I agree.

Lynn Grogan 57:19
When he said that I was like,

Katrina Ubell 57:20
Okay, well, yes. Like and, and I mean, you and I are both married. Communication is such a huge part of it. Like, you know, big time we have to have that dialed in. So yeah, I personally for me, I do not see them. I do not know, finishing up the show. She’s, she’s gonna make it to the next round. And then she’ll go like, it’ll become clear if this isn’t.

Lynn Grogan 57:40
Yeah, yeah, I think for Peter, this what I would say like, there’s got to be like, mostly physical attraction here. And then the drama, intrigue. Yeah. But if you were to really like, take a step back and do the math, you’d be like, Yeah, I don’t see this.

Katrina Ubell 57:53
I know. Yeah. I don’t know that they really like intellectually have a lot in common. I mean, she’s clearly gorgeous. Yeah. And, you know, she’s fun. But not marriage material for him, I don’t think

Lynn Grogan 58:02
Oh no, like if he actually like looked forward to the future and just said, Okay, 10 years from now, do I see this working? I think he would pretty easily go. Yeah, no, not he’s

not really working with any of them to be

quite. I would be shocked at the end of this. There is a couple, like I don’t, right.

Katrina Ubell 58:20
Or even like if they, you know, if they do try to make it work, it’s not gonna last very long at all.

Lynn Grogan 58:26
Oh, no, once the cameras are off, they’re going to be like, Who are you?

Katrina Ubell 58:29
Exactly. And that’s really what it comes down to. It’s like, Hey, I think I’d like to marry you, but I don’t even really know who you are. And I actually think that that might be why so many more of the bachelorette couples last long term than the bachelor couples. And I think it’s just because women know what they need to know. They know what they need to get to know about someone. They can just like cut to the chase quicker. Yeah, kind of like as full by emotions and hormones and things like that and maybe even looks like they’re like No, we’ve got something like I know I’ve got a connection with this person on a deeper level. And I really want to explore that. Whereas I think the guys are like, Oh my god, I’m in a room with 30 women.

Lynn Grogan 59:12
That’s so true. I have thought that too. And I mean, on the bachelorette seasons, most of the men aren’t crying. And if they are, they’re probably getting sent home early, just because it’s just men and women. Yeah, so it’s just a different, a whole different competition. Yes,

Katrina Ubell 59:27
it really is. But I’m like, okay, the answer here is to become the bachelorette. If you’re gonna do

Lynn Grogan 59:32
like, just about now people um, okay, speaking of not knowing someone, okay, so yeah, number five. Madison really like has only like cracked the door open on her face with Peter. Basically let him know it’s okay in the previous episodes that like, okay, you’re struggling with your faith, but she has not related to him that she is saving herself for marriage and what she actually wants here.

Katrina Ubell 59:56
Yeah, yeah, I mean, even when she talked him about how important her faith was to her and she said she wanted a husband who’s a faith leader. And he’s like, yeah, you know, I’m not totally there. But it’s something I’m interested in learning more about felt very much like a can answer to me. I mean, I think the level that she’s talking about, I’m not sure any like that everybody really wants to get to that place. And here’s like, there’s nothing wrong with her wanting Oh, yeah. husband, who has that level of faith. Like I think that’s great. It probably makes a ton of sense for her to do that. It’s just I mean, it seems clear as day to me that that’s not Peter never was Peter never will be Peter. So I wonder if she’s kind of caught up in all the excitement of everything so young, and all the attention that she’s getting, having this good time with the sky is showing her so much interest. And now it’s like, oh, but wait, I forgot I have these, you know, intense. Hey, leafs and morals and, you know, both her parents talked about like, how firm her morals were. Yeah. And I actually got the feeling from both the parents that it wasn’t like, this is what we’ve taught Madison that should be, although I’m sure that somebody shows I’m nervous. But I really got a feeling that she on her own has come to that place very strongly. And they’re there to support her and they agree with her and doing it, but then it’s really her deal. And I think that’s why like her mom was asking, like, Have you discussed some decisions you’ve made about your life? Yeah, like there. She’s not saying if you discuss what we believe about that, you know, she’s saying like, it’s your decision, you’ve chosen to do this. What does he think about that? Like she is much more of the guide in that conversation? Yeah, Mom, then really kind of like trying to be that controlling parent. Like I would say, the way she handled that is much more aligned with what I typically work on.

Lynn Grogan 1:01:39
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, and it is just super curious to me. Like why hasn’t Madison brought this up earlier? I think I mean, I do think I agree with you that the producers probably have some hand in it. But if it really that important to her, they can’t control what comes out of her mouth every second. Yeah, it’s not like they’re they’re pumping

Katrina Ubell 1:01:59
and if it really Was her agenda to come on and convey this information? I mean, maybe they edited it all out. Maybe she’s been talking about the whole time with all the other girls. We have no idea. I mean, we really don’t know what’s been happening, but not to Peter. And it’s just interesting, because you would think that she would want to like get on her soapbox immediately, because who knows how long you’re gonna last? Right? Oh, it’s really it’s just a very, it’s still very puzzling to me. Like, why would someone like her go on a show like that with someone like him?

Lynn Grogan 1:02:27
Yeah, I think I mean, even to me, though, it didn’t seem like her not telling him was fear based. Like I’m afraid he’s gonna kick me off. It didn’t really get that either. So

Katrina Ubell 1:02:37
I wonder why she really has kept it so close to the chest. You know, like, Why hasn’t she really opened up? Maybe it really it has been it wasn’t it her mom who said, I know you and I know you like to go slow or it takes, you

Lynn Grogan 1:02:51
know,

Katrina Ubell 1:02:52
yank, I think it was her mom who said that. And so maybe it’s part of it where she’s like, well, I’m just like, I’m not going to share my deepest, darkest, you know? morals and values and beliefs with just anybody because it’s so personal for me like I have to really, like I’m not even gonna waste my energy on that until I know that this is actually going somewhere else maybe

Lynn Grogan 1:03:09
that seems more in line with it is just like, oh, it just hasn’t been the right time yet. Not like a fear based thing. But just, this is important to me, but I only share this with somebody I think is also important to me.

Katrina Ubell 1:03:21
Yeah, maybe maybe the whole thing is still just I can’t put it together how it makes

Lynn Grogan 1:03:26
them make sense, either. I mean, but it is like a like obviously the next plot twist. Yeah.

Katrina Ubell 1:03:33
Why is the teaser they talk about her basically giving him that ultimatum? Like, yeah, you know, if you have sex with any of the other women while we’re here, like that’s going to be a deal breaker, hey, and so then of course, you know, from a coaching perspective, like she can totally have whatever boundaries she wants, but she can’t get mad at him if he goes and does what he wants. Right? Like she has to know like, she’s not in control of all of that. Like she doesn’t get to say what he does now or ever really because even when you’re in a marriage You don’t typically controlling the other person doesn’t doesn’t work well, like you might do it successfully for many years, but generally doesn’t end up in long term working out very well. So, so it’s, it’s really going to be interesting. I mean, they often will be able to twist these, these, you know, oh, the teaser teasers, and then it’s not really what it is at all. So maybe it will be totally different. But I just can’t imagine I cannot envision Peter saying, Okay, I’m going to give up fantasy suites privileges or, you know, go to the fantasy suite and not have sex with these other women. And I’m not gonna have sex with you until we get married.

Lynn Grogan 1:04:39
Oh, right. Well, and I also think it’s interesting too, is just how would she actually know what he’s done in the other rooms? Like if the girls came back and was like, Hey, I know Madison’s gonna leave the competition. If I tell her we had sex or something close to it. Why wouldn’t they just say that? I mean, that could even be what happens. Yeah, you never know. Right?

Katrina Ubell 1:04:57
Oh, right. And it seemed like there’s some drama with where I was at Hannah and was kind of like, you know, he can’t like determine that or you know, like, and I think Victoria after six it’s completely ridiculous. Oh, of course. Yeah, no. Yeah. Surprising for So in any case, I think that I mean, if I had to, you know, bet my house I bought my house that none of these are going to buy I think that based on the teasers that they’ve given where you know, someone doesn’t show up and runs home I mean, that would be Madison 100% Oh, I think would be there and just would suddenly you know, have a

truly a come to Jesus moment right.

And just right, just going like

this isn’t the right thing I need to go home and then Peters mother being like, oh, bring her home, too. Oh, my gosh, they felt actually with her so early on. Right. It would make sense that it would be totally make sense.

Lynn Grogan 1:05:50
Yeah. Maybe Maybe she’ll

Katrina Ubell 1:05:51
convert him to something to you know, some kind of intense evangelical, you know, lifestyle and, you know, Then that’s I don’t have any problem with that. I think that’s amazing. It just doesn’t appear to be the path that he’s on or something that he’s particularly seeking. But

Lynn Grogan 1:06:08
yeah. Oh, to be a fly on the wall while Peter watches this back.

Katrina Ubell 1:06:12
No, I know.

So how many more episodes are there? There’s going to be two more.

Lynn Grogan 1:06:15
Yeah, fantasy suites and then they’ll have like the women tell all and then they’ll have finales one and two. So not many

Katrina Ubell 1:06:22
were like I always wanted to so is that do? How many weeks do they spread those out over?

Lynn Grogan 1:06:27
Not really. I mean, next week will be fantasy suites the week after that’s probably women tell all and the week after that they do the finale on date, like Monday and Tuesday. So we have like three more weeks after this. Okay. It’s just crazy.

Katrina Ubell 1:06:38
Yeah, so it feels like it’s gone fast. Because guess why? It goes really

fast to try to make these decisions.

Lynn Grogan 1:06:46
They don’t let us forget it.

Katrina Ubell 1:06:49
I know. I know. I mean, they really do. I think they really do know how to manufacture this show to give you the dopamine hits just like Facebook or other social media. Like it literally I I mean, they’ve been at this so long they know I’m sure they’re watching all their metrics on like, when we include this or we do this kind of a thing, like the listenership or the what? You know, I want to say

whatever they want,

Lynn Grogan 1:07:12
like, all their Oh, I would love to see that

Katrina Ubell 1:07:16
people can’t get to the end just like my husband, you know, like I he watched this one episode now he’s like, well, now I gotta watch the end of it. Oh, well, that’s pretty typical with a lot of reality shows like The voice is the same way you start feeling kind of committed or you know, these contestants, and you want to know how it ends up at the end. It’s like watching a train wreck right in front of her eyes and you cannot look away.

Lynn Grogan 1:07:36
Yeah, I mean, you start to forget that these are real people with real feelings, like actual feelings.

Katrina Ubell 1:07:42
I know. And I think like these are the people who have have to listen to every person, including us have an opinion about their lives and how they acted, knowing nothing about what really has happened. Oh, right, worse, and they can’t say anything. And then the whole world has such an opinion about you. That is based on nothing. That’s even really real. Exactly. All of this is like I want to say like, these are all my opinions and my thoughts and my coaching with the huge caveat that like,

also we have really no idea.

Lynn Grogan 1:08:13
Yeah, I know. It’s like even if we did sit down with them like what can I actually say? Probably not that much. Exactly how much oh my gosh, Katrina

Katrina Ubell 1:08:24
coming on the show. This is so funny for having me. So fun. Thank you so much. Seriously, I have been looking for this for so long.

Lynn Grogan 1:08:30
I know. Right? It’s like, yeah, we like start being it. I don’t know. We’ll have it. We’ll keep talking about it offline.

Katrina Ubell 1:08:38
Offline exactly what we will be dishing

Lynn Grogan 1:08:41
out Okay, so Katrina, if people want to find you, well, us not just Yes, I work for you wherever they go.

Katrina Ubell 1:08:47
They would go to Katrina you Bell, MD calm. And another easy way to find me is on my podcast, which is called weight loss for busy physicians. If you’re not a physician, it’s just Totally cool. I have a ton of listeners who get amazing results, just from listening to the podcast and applying what I teach there. So definitely check that out. And then if you want to work with both of us, when and I both work with women physicians in clinical practice want to lose weight, so we’d love to help you. I

Lynn Grogan 1:09:18
guess we do. Okay, so I will link to that in the show notes. Of course. Yeah. What is the website Lynn Grogan comm slash episode eight.

I don’t even know anymore.

And I’ll have it all over there. So thanks for coming on the

Katrina Ubell 1:09:30
show, when I could not have been happier to be asked. Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:36
All right.