Emotional Breakdown with Kristen McClellan | The Bachelor S24, E5

Unedited Transcript

Lynn Grogan 0:01
Welcome to The Bachelor Life Coach, the only podcast that brings on weekly guests to drop self help wisdom on the cast of The Bachelor. I’m your host, Lynn Grogan. Let’s go. All right, welcome back to The Bachelor Life Coach podcast. I’m your host certified Life Coach Lynn Grogan, and with me today I have very special guests certified life coach Kristin McClellan. Hi, Kristen. How are you?

Kristen McClellan 0:28
Good. How are you, Lynn? Good.

Lynn Grogan 0:29
Why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself.

Kristen McClellan 0:32
My name is Krista McClellan. I’m a certified life coach. I also have a master’s degree in psychology. And I help social media influencers reduce their anxiety and these are high functioning women. They’re very successful and they want relief from their anxiety. And I kind of call it like anxiety behind a smile is for women that are high achieving their very successful everything looks great on the outside, but inside they’re really struggling and feel like they’re falling apart. And they’re just anxious every day. And they’re smart enough to know that there’s a better way to live. And so I help them do that.

Lynn Grogan 1:09
Which is amazing. Because basically every single woman on the show could be your client.

Kristen McClellan 1:14
Yes, absolutely.

Lynn Grogan 1:16
Yeah. I can’t wait to pick your brain on this just because in watching this, I was like, Oh my gosh, Kristen is the perfect guest to have on here based on that. And so you’re gonna have so many good insights. I just know it.

Kristen McClellan 1:27
Yes, almost every line they said I wanted to write down and coach on there was so many coachable moments that could help these guys so much. I know.

Lynn Grogan 1:36
I know. It’s just getting worse as we go on too

Kristen McClellan 1:39
I only knew I know and it’s going to get just as you go on, it gets more intense it’s going to get even more coachable, which is awesome news for you.

Lynn Grogan 1:45
For all of us, right, yeah, for everyone. So I’m going to go ahead and do a brief show recap, which actually isn’t quite so brief since so much happened on this three hour episode. So we start out with the cliffhanger where they are at the cocktail ceremony, and Peter takes Alayah to the side and despite having given her a rose, she ends up going home, which I felt was mutual. Did you get that sense to that she was just ready to go?

Kristen McClellan 2:13
I guess the whole thing the whole time I’m thinking Peter, do you not have sisters? Have you never dated women before? Like, I could just watch him literally like did himself this huge giant hole I was so nervous for.

Lynn Grogan 2:28
So she goes away. And then they line up for the rose ceremony and he sends home Diandra, Kiarra and Savannah. Then they go from Cleveland to Costa Rica, which I’m kind of embarrassed to say this. I actually thought that Costa Rica was an island. And then they showed the picture of where it was, and I was like, not an island. It made me feel a little bit dumb. You probably knew it was an island. And then Peter rolls in and everybody gets there and Peter rolls in with this massive head wound which he tells them is from a Puma, but it’s really from a golf cart.

Kristen McClellan 3:03
And did you buy into the Puma because the whole time I’m like Pilot Pete the Puma would have eaten you for lunch, but

Lynn Grogan 3:10
I know I was like, Oh, we wouldn’t have a show anymore and then for sure we would have amazing footage of that. But yeah, no. I didn’t a lot of the girls did. And for not for long. And then from there, he takes Sydney on a one on one date where she opens up to Peter about her bullying in the past and she gets a rose. From there we have a group date by a waterfall. It’s a Cosmo modeling competition. Victoria F. wins the cover shoot, but ultimately after a very, very, very dramatic cocktail party, Hannah Ann gets the group date rose, but we’ll definitely talk about that drama a little in a little bit. And we move on to a one on one date with Kelley, where Peters really interested in testing her commitment to the process. They visit a shaman and she I guess just tells Peter like Yeah, for sure. I trust this process. Yeah, let’s keep going. I’m not convinced. I don’t think he’s convinced but he gives her a rose anyway. I don’t know. What did you think? Did you?

Kristen McClellan 4:07
Yeah, she’s so low key about it. Even some of her commentary like, I’m just in Costa Rica, so I’m just gonna have fun. I mean, she’s very seems very, like almost neutral. Yeah, very calm about the process like, you know, maybe I’ll get a good dinner out of the deal. Costa Rica is pretty I don’t know, I like to travel. I’ve been to 26 countries. And she doesn’t even really talk about Peter in the commentary. They show it all.

Lynn Grogan 4:31
Oh, no, she’s like, I’m tired. This is cool. I don’t know. But she gets a rose. She’s gonna stay. And then a little bit later, Kelsey goes to see Peter in secret. And she gets a rose. And then little bit later, Chris Harrison comes in to tell everybody that the cocktail party has been canceled because Peter has some clarity he didn’t have earlier in the day. And because of this, all the girls blame Kelsey for this because they put two and two together. She visited him + cocktail party cancelled. And then from there, Peter ends up cutting Lexi and Shiann and that’s it. That’s a crazy episode. I wanted to Yeah. So before we jump into coacable moments, I want to mention that if you want to help pick the next moments from next week, you go over to my Instagram account @LynnGrogan, and then comment on the post that says which we coach on this week? So I had a couple people again, we had Kelly Shipley again, Janet Cagle and fit mama Jama. I didn’t catch her name that offered suggestions this week. So thank you, everyone for those. Kristen, are you ready to coach now?

Kristen McClellan 5:37
Let’s do it, girl. Let’s do it.

Lynn Grogan 5:39
Welcome to coachable moments, buckle up and sit tight. The coaching will begin in just a moment.

All right,

Kristen McClellan 5:50
coaching hat on

Lynn Grogan 5:52
I know shift focus. We could still be a little snarky, but there might be some coaching that we can fit it in between. So let’s just talk about something that was sprinkled out through the whole episode of actually the last several episodes. But MyKenna and her self-doubt seems to be a recurring theme on the show. We keep on getting clips of her where MyKenna’s pretty convinced that if she just had five more minutes with Peter, he would see her and how amazing she is. But until then, she has no security, and she’s in self doubt. And I just feel for her because it’s like every other line. The poor thing has probably other things to say other then I’m freaking out about this. But I mean, some of these key lines are just like, if I can just like knock down my walls. I feel like Peter hasn’t seen who I am yet. And I want him to see that. That’s why I want to get time with him tonight. So she’s constantly thinking if she just has a little bit more time that Peter will just fall magically in love with her and then she can fall in love with him. And then we have this perfect like Cinderella story and a scene like what did you think about this?

Kristen McClellan 6:53
Well, the five minute theme, what is the five minutes? Like the magic number for her to tell him why she’s so amazing. Like, I just need five minutes with him. Because tonight was going to be big. Remember, she kept talking about how tonight was going to be so big. So I thought was interesting that there’s a time limit on it. It’s not like I need like this or this. It’s like, I just need five minutes to hurry and convince him that I’m amazing. And he should keep me. Totally.

Lynn Grogan 7:19
Yeah. And just like, what are you going to do in that five minutes? That’s going to show him what you haven’t shown him already? Because I’ve seen what she can do with five minutes and it involves only dancing with wine in her hand.

Kristen McClellan 7:29
And sparkles. Sparkles lots of on her. Yeah, it’s totally coming from a lack and scarcity mentality, right? Like, I don’t have enough time I don’t have I don’t have self doubt. self doubt is a total indulgent emotion that we don’t ever even need. Right. It does nothing for us.

Lynn Grogan 7:50
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, the more she indulges in this doubt, the more that she goes to that she’s not getting any sort of result from being in that place. Mostly she’s just showing up as this person that doesn’t actually believe that anything good can happen for her. Right? And then we see her not spending any time with her.

Kristen McClellan 8:11
When when you think about the energy to that she’s wasting on the drama and how she thinks Peters so caught up in the drama. But really she’s the one that’s wasting all her time and brain energy and thoughts in the drama.

Lynn Grogan 8:26
Yeah. And what I thought was interesting about this is right before this cocktail ceremony, she’s like, I have the perfect thing. And now I need to tell Peter, like, Did you catch that? I’m like, What is this perfect thing? It was like she’s spinning in her head over and over again. Like, I need to have something I need to have something. I need to have something like there’s going to be this perfect thing. And then everything will come together. like something’s just going to come together at the last minute, and then they will fall magically in love with each other.

Kristen McClellan 8:52
Yeah, you’re exactly right. And that’s what she said like tonight was going to be big for me. And now I’ve lost it. Yeah. And it’s other people that are ruining my possibility of having a chance with him. Totally.

Lynn Grogan 9:06
Like if you had a client that came to you, basically telling you like, I just need I’ve been dating this guy, but I’m freaking out about it super anxious about it, feeling a lot of self doubt about it. Like, how would you coach her through this?

Kristen McClellan 9:19
I love that question. So, when we feel anxious, that is a feeling. One of the first things we teach clients that we were taught at the school is to teach them awareness. Like what are you thinking? What are you feeling? And so if we wanted to start with their feeling like I’m just feeling anxious, we would backtrack it to her thought, like what is making you feel anxious? And she might think it’s her relationship, but really, it’s just her thoughts about her relationships. That is making her feel anxious.

Lynn Grogan 9:49
Yeah. And what do you think some of her thoughts are?

Kristen McClellan 9:53
Well, we know some of them right like she’s feeling self doubt. She’s feeling lack of Confidence. She’s feeling a lack of abilities to make Peter fall in love with her her ability to say the right theme, lack of time. And I think the five minutes has to do with she doesn’t need an hour or two hours or a week or a month with Peter. She just needs five minutes. And so I think that too, is kind of the scarcity. Like, it just takes five minutes, and then you can fall in love with me. You know?

Lynn Grogan 10:25
Yeah. And it’s interesting, too, because then we see her at the very end of the episode, when the cocktail party has been canceled. First, Tammy goes to talk to Peter. And then she’s just like, this is it, I have to do it, because she believes very much in her mind. That’s like some thing needs to happen outside of her that’s going to prove to Peter and to herself that this love exists and that he should keep her there. And I don’t know if that was the impetus for him to keep her on the show or not. But certainly we’ve seen lots of examples where Peter reacts to whoever’s in front of him. So maybe that was it. But my guess is that that’s basically just giving her evidence that if she does steal Peter, if she does have time with him that she gets what she wants. So I don’t think that that’s helped her much and her mindset, because here she has some evidence that like, this has worked for her.

Kristen McClellan 11:18
Yes, I totally agree with that. And I have to say my hat is off to the women that are breaking the rules. You’ve got a million cameras on you. I try to put myself in the position. You’ve got a million cameras on you. And you’re like, I don’t care what the rules are. I’m making my way I’m going to think outside the box. I’m going after it knowing that the girls you’re leaving behind you want to scratch your eyes out my head. I actually appreciated her confidence in that moment to be like, I don’t care what the rules are. I am going to fight for what I want. And these girls can all hate me. She knew what she was going to go back to.

Lynn Grogan 11:54
Oh, totally.

Kristen McClellan 11:55
You’ll have you know, kind of the mentality like I’m gonna think outside the box and I’m breaking the rules.

Lynn Grogan 12:01
Yeah, that was one moment where she just kind of stood up and just went like, Okay, it’s time to put my money where my mouth is. I’ve been saying this whole time, I need some time with Peter, I need five minutes, I’m going to go take my time.

Kristen McClellan 12:11
She kind of created the time, right?

Lynn Grogan 12:13
She did create the time it was the first time probably in the whole season, where she advocated in herself in that way. So something worked in that moment, where she got out of like, the self doubt, and she propelled herself forward. Not quite sure what changed there.

Kristen McClellan 12:29
Yeah, kind of interesting.

Lynn Grogan 12:31
Yeah, but surely some sort of thought.

Kristen McClellan 12:33
Right. And whether it came from a clean place and when I say clean place, whether it came from like confidence and I’m falling in love or it came from my desperation I have to whatever it came from, but interesting that she was willing to think outside the box and it’d be interesting to know what emotion drove her actions. Yeah. Our feelings always drive how we behave.

Lynn Grogan 12:54
Right? Right. So it was definitely was a feeling other than self doubt, because that wouldn’t have had her walking across the room. interrupting her his conversation with Tammy. So, I mean, that was one moment where I was like, Okay, my cat is doing this. She’s not just going to sit here and complain and be in doubt about this. She’s actually going to move forward. Hats off for her finally figuring that out. So should we move to number two? Yeah.

Kristen McClellan 13:18
So let’s see number two. So this is when Peter takes Sydney who is gorgeous, by the way. Oh my gosh. So beautiful. He takes her on a date in a helicopter. The one on one, you have a target on your back instantly when the card comes in, and you’ve got one on one right there in Costa Rica. Like before there in Cleveland. No one wants to go on a date in Cleveland on a helicopter ride and close. Right. So instantly everyone hates Sydney because she’s going on a date. Right. Kelsey, particularly who have we seen really get a lot of attention because the crazier you act, the more attention you’re going to get right, the more TV time you’re going to get. Yeah. So we see Kelsey cry for several hours over Sydney going on a date because she was the one that had the last one on one. She felt like she had a great connection. And now all sudden this beautiful girl is taking off in this beautiful romantic setting in a helicopter and they’re like at the pool waving.

Lynn Grogan 14:18
And Kelsey claims that it’s not Sydney it would have been anyone, but who knows.

Kristen McClellan 14:23
Right? Right. And that’s true. I mean, I think it could be true you when you get that one on one date card, I think instantly everyone hates you, even if they, you know, it’s not because of who you are. But what you get to do totally.

Lynn Grogan 14:36
Yeah, especially Costa Rica,

Kristen McClellan 14:38
Costa Rica, which apparently isn’t an island.

Lynn Grogan 14:42
I’m gonna get some crap for that one for sure.

Kristen McClellan 14:46
So, Tammy goes over to Kelsey and Kelsey is crying and she’s drinking or not sure how much wine she’s had. But she is obviously drinking. We see the wine in her hand and she’s acting a little bit Just really has a lot of emotions going on. And I love that Tommy goes over like, Hey girl, just want to make sure you’re okay. And then she proceeds to say Kelsey is a hot mess. She’s been crying for weeks. She cried over a champagne bottle for four days. I didn’t even cry this much when my grandfather died, like, I mean, she just goes on and on and on about if Peter knew how crazy she was he would send her home. And she’s emotionally unstable. So she goes and acts like this towards Kelsey and then comes back to the girls and just goes off about her. Totally. Well, just so interesting. She starts out like I just went over to see if she was okay, right.

Lynn Grogan 15:46
Oh my gosh. I’m just like Tammy. Like you didn’t want to see if she was okay. You were just bored. And then you were just going to see like sniff out the drama.

Kristen McClellan 15:57
For sure. cuz she’s crying. Yes. She drank wine or whatever someone had mentioned she pill popping. So I mean, exactly. Tammy went over to be like, how can I ruffle feathers? How can I get things that what can I get on her?

Lynn Grogan 16:11
I think for Tammy, her limits like MyKenna is five minutes. Like, I think she was good for five minutes of Kelsey crying, but when it went on for a reportedly for three hours, three hours, right, that’s when Tammy was just like, listen, you’re not handling this well, at all. She totally has this idea about how people in the house should be processing their emotion and handling things. And because everyone was left behind, only one person and one on the one to win a everyone left behind. And Kelsey was the only one crying. Therefore by default, Kelsey is doing it wrong. And Tammy is there to set the record straight and tell her what she should do right.

Kristen McClellan 16:51
Right, which is so fascinating, right? Why does Tammy care how Kelsey processes her emotions?

Lynn Grogan 16:59
I couldn’t figure out. But I mean, really, basically, Tammy wants Kelsey to stop crying so that she can feel better. So she just was like, I want some peace and quiet and you’re doing this all wrong.

Kristen McClellan 17:11
You’re doing this all wrong. You’re psycho. You’re crazy. And as a side note, I couldn’t help but notice that Kelsey thinks she’s processing her emotions. Right, right. And really Kelsey is acting like a child. Like she’s acting like a toddler. She’s throwing a fit. She’s yelling, she’s uncontrollable. She’s drinking really. She’s avoiding her emotions. She thinks she’s processing them. But I go through this with clients about anxiety, to process an emotion of processing anxiety or sadness or whatever we’re feeling that can be done sitting quietly in a chair. Yeah, process something. It’s just a vibration in our body. Yeah, emotion is just something we feel in our body. And so it doesn’t when we process an emotion doesn’t mean we react to it by drinking, yelling, screaming, dropping the F bomb, whatever else went on with that, and it doesn’t even necessarily mean we cry. And not that crying is terrible and bad, but but still crying is acting out your emotion. Yeah. So I love to teach clients and I found it super helpful for people and for those at home when you’re really processing an emotion as an adult, you can do it sitting in a chair.

Lynn Grogan 18:28
Yeah, you could totally do it sitting in the chair. I mean, or as Natasha, one of the contestants offered like writing in a journal. Looking at it that way. I think what was key here is that there’s no one right way. Like I would also agree with you that Kelsey thinks she’s processing emotions, but it’s really doing a lot of reacting a lot of indulging, right? A lot of I’m guessing, assuming that other people are causing how she feels like her not knowing the status of everyone else’s relationship is causing this emotional meltdown but not anything about like, what’s going on in her mind. But everyone processes differently. And it’s not for someone like Tammy or Kelsey or Natasha to say, who’s doing it right and who’s doing it wrong. Right? You know, the only indication is how you feel in your body. And we can see Kelsey as all of the flavors of emotions. She’s getting all of them.

Kristen McClellan 19:23
But as she’s using alcohol to put that barrier with how she’s feeling, right, it’s the same thing we do with food. You work with weight loss clients, right?

Lynn Grogan 19:33
Yeah, yeah.

Kristen McClellan 19:34
So tell us a little bit about that and how you’re how that relates, using food to not feel emotions, right.

Lynn Grogan 19:41
I mean, it’s just numbing everything out so you think you’re feeling better because you’re eating the ice cream but really like that anxiety or the sadness or whatever you were feeling before you ate the ice cream is still there. It’s waiting for you. But now you just can’t feel it anymore because you have this insane sugar high, distracting you. I mean, essentially, her wine was distracting her from her sadness, but it didn’t mean that it went away. It’s still there.

Kristen McClellan 20:09
You said like the ice cream, you kind of numb up for a little bit. And so I thought that was a great point for everyone to understand that when we really do truly process our emotions, it doesn’t need to be this big dramatic theme. It doesn’t even need to be crying it can be but using alcohol or food or things like that, it just kind of numbs and helps you for a minute and then when the ice cream is gone, or the alcohol isn’t in effect anymore, you’re still left to deal with how you feel about Sydney going on the one.

Lynn Grogan 20:39
Totally. And we see that the whole episode. Like it’s not like Kelsey was like, Oh, I process it now. I feel better I can move forward in my relationship. We just kind of see this downhill spiral for her. Um, and there’s still turbulence at the very end. And so I mean in for her we see her repeatedly thinking like, oh, if I go see Peter, I get the validation. I need that I feel better. If I do this. happens and then I feel better, Always something external to her. And so I think I would argue that like, probably not very many of them do know how to process their emotions. And what’s interesting about it is just like, here they are in a situation probably their only buffer, the only thing that they can have to numb it out is alcohol or food.

Kristen McClellan 21:22
I thought that to their phones, way social media is taken away some of the other things,

Lynn Grogan 21:27
Any sort of freedom to leave, right? Because most of these women, I mean, come on Kelley, the lawyer, she would have been out of there, like, I’m going to go to the coffee shop, and I’ll come back later for the rose ceremony. Right, but instead, I mean, granted, I can’t say that not all of them know how to process motions, because the only ones we see are the ones on screen that are having a lot of attention getting moments.

Kristen McClellan 21:50
Well, I thought Natasha kind of gave us a little insight there. She’s like, I journaled it and I went off with myself and I thought, that sounds like more of what really processing emotion is And in everyone’s defense I mean before this work I didn’t understand how to process emotions. I just would eat or over this or over that, you know, I mean that we have all these pleasure things in the world that promote go shopping, get on social media, compare yourself, you know, eat some ice cream, run to the drive thru, whatever. And so it’s just the natural man to not understand this. It’s not taught.

Lynn Grogan 22:25
It’s not taught. Yeah, when I think especially for all of these women are basically digital natives like they grew up with a cell phone within reach. And so for you and I who probably did not have that I didn’t tell this I can speak for you Kristen. Then the challenges I feel like are even more prominent, especially like they were exposed to ads probably a lot earlier. I mean, we had like three channels on my TV growing up. So it’s like that I see a lot of commercials cap, but not as many as like we get now today. And so we’re even further away from being able to process our emotions and figure them out.

Kristen McClellan 22:59
So much your fingertip to buffer with right? Click click. I mean, just so much now we have doordash. I mean, you can have food your house is just so convenient. It’s it’s something that we have to learn. Yeah, not anymore and you don’t know what you don’t know.

Lynn Grogan 23:14
Exactly. And I think what’s interesting is at the beginning of the episode, a few of them were saying like, yeah, you’re going to Costa Rica, we can leave the drama behind us thinking that it was Cleveland or California that was causing the drama.

Kristen McClellan 23:26
But now it’s going with you guys. Your brain follows you. Everywhere. You’re going to Costa Rica. And you think there’s drama, The drama comes to Costa Rica. Your thoughts come with you. Always

Lynn Grogan 23:39
That clear. Yeah. And so I think this is something again, I mean, I think all of the themes that we’re talking about today, go with us the entire episode. So we definitely see more altercations with first Tammy and Kelsey. And then Sydney gets involved and I think MyKenna gets involved. And so I think we’re seeing a lot of stress response. And this is the only release that a lot of them have. I mean, we have people like Natasha who are journaling. We don’t see her acting out in many of these ways. But I think for the rest of the people, they don’t really have much of an outlet. They don’t have anything really to distract them. And so the people around them become the way that they release their emotions. They react, they act out to them. Exactly.

Kristen McClellan 24:21
Yeah, totally.

Lynn Grogan 24:24
Shall we move on to number three? All right, so Peter takes Kelley on a one on one date. So this is the second one of the episode. And he expresses before the day that he’s like, not really sure where he’s at with her. He makes an interesting demand. He says, I need to see a lot from her today. Because his impression of how women should act on this show from what I can see is, you know, they need to be giving to him, they need to be open and vulnerable and they need to be sharing their stories and all of this.

Kristen McClellan 24:58
He wants 5050 whatever that means.

Lynn Grogan 25:00
Yeah, he thinks he’s giving 75 and she’s giving 25 Mm hmm. And he kind of feels like he she’s not trying at all. Rather than a date to get to know her more, I got more of the impression that this was almost a trial. Let’s see what you can give. Let’s see if I should keep you. Did you get that impression too?

Kristen McClellan 25:21
Yes. And I thought the word a lot was super interesting because it revealed that what does Peter even want from her? Right? How many of us in our life are like I just want him to make me happier? I just want her to give a lot like, I don’t even think Peter knows what a lot means. And then he’s expecting Kelley to fulfill the a lot of I’m not sure he even knows what it is.

Lynn Grogan 25:46
No, I know because he starts it up being like, she’s everything that I would want. She loves to travel. She’s close to her family. She’s super successful. She loves her career. And then he’s like, but I need more. And more of what exactly which is What you’re saying he needs that a lot. We could see his insecurities coming out here because he feels super secure in his relationship with Kelsey who may or may not be great for him. But it’s because Kelsey has been expressing this whole time I’m falling in love with you. This is all working out for me. She’s really into the process of getting there. And we see Kelley kind of sitting back going, I don’t know about this. Like, I’m not sure if this is for me. I was thinking back in Cleveland, I should maybe go home and now she’s like, yeah, I might be open to this will go into foreign countries. I like to travel. Right. So I thought this was so interesting, too, is did you pick up on this beforehand? Kelley would seem kind of nervous to go on this one on one day, and she’s saying like, I don’t really have this sob story to share. Or there’s something deeper and I think that’s what Peter is wanting is this. something deeper this vulnerable moment and Kelley’s just like, dude, I barely know you. Why would I tell you all the things? That’s the impression I got. She’s just like, there’s nothing

Kristen McClellan 26:58
Totally, I think Kelly basically was saying, like, I don’t have anything super dramatic, that’s gonna make me cry. And it’s going to make the other girls mad. And it’s going to like woo Peter like, I’m, I’m just me and, and I think you’re exactly right. Like, what does Peter want? The a lot is that like, Hey, tell me your worst experience in your life and cry about it or I just think Kelley doesn’t have enough drama to stay on the show.

Lynn Grogan 27:24
No, I know. Well, and I think she has such a good point when they’re at the evening portion of their date, when she tells him like, Hey, I haven’t had the opportunity to even get to know you because you’ve been here rewarding all the drama. And you could see this like flash of like, across his face. I don’t even know what emotion that was, where it’s like this recognition of okay, maybe she’s right. But I think she is right. Like, she’s just like, Listen, I’m not here to like push girls out of the way and create drama. I mean, maybe she did a little bit in that first episode when she you know, broke the rules on the date. I don’t know But here, she’s just like, Okay, listen, you’re distracted. I don’t even think you’re looking for a wife. So why should I show up and pretend like I’m looking for a husband if you’re not that guy, she challenges him so much in this.

Kristen McClellan 28:13
Yes. And it felt like a maturity level difference where she’s like, I don’t even think you’re ready to do because you love the drama. You don’t want anyone to be mad at you. You want to pull people back give people I mean, you know, you’re not even decisive on what you want.

Lynn Grogan 28:29
Yeah, I mean, part of me is just like, man, can we maybe just like, clearly maybe just need to walk away from this? Because he’s, I don’t get the impression that he’s finding a wife by the end of this. He thinks he is. I think he’s seriously misguided here.

Kristen McClellan 28:43
Yes, I agree. And if you watch his body language, I love watching people’s body language. You watch his body language, he’s just exhausted, don’t you think like poor eyes, and he’s sweating all the time. And I think he’s just exhausted.

Lynn Grogan 28:58
I think so too. And I also Wonder if part of this is like the producers beforehand, saying, hey, Peter, why don’t you ask her XY and Z and wanting to get the story, right? Because their job is to make good TV. His job is to find a wife and Kelley’s just like, I’m just here for fun. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I’m so good. Yeah, I just think here. There’s two people that are playing roles. I don’t get the impression that this is going to go anywhere. He gives her the rose. I don’t know why. Why do you think he gave her the rose at this one?

Kristen McClellan 29:32
I don’t know if like you mentioned there was a moment where he was kind of like, have like, some emotional adulthood where he was like, taking on responsibility for what he done, how he feels things like that. If he kind of had a glimpse of like, you’re right. And like you said, maybe she challenges him. And and really we know and we teach that relationships are just our thoughts. about other people, right? So his thoughts about his relationship with Kelley, or just his thoughts which create his relationship. And so I almost like he had a moment of kind of like, maybe she’s right. Like, she’s kind of making me think outside the box a little bit. And I’m going to keep her around.

Lynn Grogan 30:18
Yeah. I think in that moment, he was also like, you know, I don’t have any strong reasons not to keep her around. Like, I could keep her. I could not keep her. We’ll just keep going forward.

Kristen McClellan 30:27
And I think she feels the same way. Like, I can stay. I like travel. I like the food.

Lynn Grogan 30:33
Yeah. It’s like they’ve had like a solid first or second date. And both of them are kind of lukewarm. And they’re, like, go on the third day. I feel like this is third dating her by giving her the rose. Yeah. Some of the other women. I think he’s thinking more into the future. But here, he’s just like, oh, I’ll just keep you around for the next ceremony and see what happens. Right? Yeah. Well, good for him. Like, at least he’s keeping somebody around that as a stark contrast to everything else.

Kristen McClellan 30:58
Right. Agreed. Way to stay around Kelley. I like her.

Lynn Grogan 31:01
I like her too. It’s probably like the most adults out of all them her and Natasha. I’m like, okay, we have some adults in the room. Somebody is chaperoning this this, this mess.

Kristen McClellan 31:11
That’s why I think they won’t make it. That’s another on where I’m like she just, she’s not dramatic enough. I know. I know the whole situation. I mean, when you apply, I think you need to be like, ready to be dramatic or I don’t know. I don’t know if you’ll want to stay right, then like Kelley, then you’re just kind of lukewarm.

Lynn Grogan 31:28
Well, it’s interesting, because I’m like, I don’t really see her being a social media influencer after this. I mean, she’s going to go back to being a lawyer. And so I think for her, it’s just sort of this quirky adventure. That’s so different than her daily life. Yeah, she’s not gonna put on this act that he’s looking for. Like, basically, he’s asking her to perform like I need to see a lot from her today. And she’s like, oh, listen, I’m not going to do this whole song and dance for you. either take it or leave it if you want me to go home fine. It’s been a fun adventure. And I think that confuses him a lot. When he gets confused, he basically keeps people around.

Kristen McClellan 32:03
Yeah, he kind of panics. Right.

Lynn Grogan 32:05
I think he panicked and kept her.

Kristen McClellan 32:06
Yeah. It’ll be interesting to see but I don’t think Kelley stays in.

Lynn Grogan 32:09
No, I don’t think so either. Well, I can only move on to number four.

Kristen McClellan 32:15
Yes. Okay. So this is when Peter, this is when Kelsey sneaks over which again, I love the rule breaking. Like, they know what they want. They’re going to try to go after it. They don’t care if it’s breaking the rules or not. She goes over and he gives her a roll rose, he she tells him like, hey, Tammy told you all these things, like, I’m trying to think of some lines that she says like, I want to be here. What does what does he say? Tell me what he says. She says,

Lynn Grogan 32:46
I mean, they just have that whole conversation about how Yes, all the things people are saying has happened. With right. She’s learned from other people’s examples like Alayah, deny, deny everything that happened. So Kelsey Like, yeah, I cried, I drank wine. Tammy and I had a kerfuffle. Like all of those things happen. It’s true. But at the same time, this has been hard for me. This is a struggle. And I just wanted you to know that so you don’t cut me thinking that I’m just stirring up drama. I’m just expressing the struggle. And I think that’s what was going on there. I thought was a good strategy personally, because Peter does react to basically last person in front of him. He’s so tired, such a short attention span, maybe would think differently if it was a different situation, but really, he’s just like, she seems to want to be here. So here’s a rose.

Kristen McClellan 33:38
Well, and I think again, like you said, smart on her part, because Hello, every second unless maybe you’re hiding in the bathroom is recorded. So if you go and lie to Peter, like, it’s not going to stay hidden. Your life is going to come out eventually. So I think it was well played on her part.

Lynn Grogan 33:54
I think so too. And then, you know, from there, she gets this rose. She feels so much better. She says she’s feels validated now Good for her. Right. I thought it was an interesting moment when he hands her the rose because you can see her face. She’s like, the girls. She’s scared. Yes. Yeah, she’s so scared. So scared and then she goes back and she’s like, Okay, I’m gonna have to tell everybody about this. They’re gonna find out anyway. All the girls are already dressed up for this cocktail party, that they’re shortly thereafter informed is no longer going to be happening. And when asked why Chris Harrison’s like Peter got the clarity he needed this afternoon. Like, what else could that mean? Who knows if that’s even true, but everybody put two and two together was like, This is Kelsey fault. And Kelsey also thought it was Kelsey’s fault, which I thought was interesting.

Kristen McClellan 34:48
Yes, she apologizes for what she did. Almost like she doesn’t have her own back, right. We teach our clients like you make a decision and you have your own back all the time. There are no mistakes. You own what happens? It doesn’t mean that maybe you totally condone what other people do but you own what happens right? And so I felt like she didn’t really have her own back. She came back and she even said, like what she said and then so tonight should be smooth sailing? Like she says, like a question like, are you gonna kill me?

Lynn Grogan 35:21
Right? She’s like, Oh, my God, the daggers are coming out. Yeah. And she goes on this whole apology tour, which I think is so interesting, because in this moment, she’s basically mirroring what Peter has done this whole season, which is, notice some drama, assume it’s his fault. She’s assuming it’s her fault and then going around and apologizing to everybody, because she thinks that’s gonna make her feel better. She just needs one person to say, Hey, no worries, Kelsey, like, this is totally fine. Right? Nobody is gonna say that because now they have the perfect person to blame.

Kristen McClellan 35:50
Well, they’re victims, right? Totally victims. They become the victims and Kelsey is the villain because it’s her fault. They’re not having a cocktail party, but what we teach is it’s their thoughts about not having a cocktail party. Kelsey can’t make Peter do anything. Right. Yeah, he’s an adult. She can’t make him cancel the cocktail party that was completely Pilot Pete.

Lynn Grogan 36:16
Yeah, it was 100% him.

Kristen McClellan 36:18
Yeah, it was totally him. But now the victims love a villain. Right and, and Pilot Pete’s not going to be the villain. They’re making out with him every five seconds all of them, right? It’s like whenever he doesn’t know what to say he like looks at him and just goes into the heat.

Lynn Grogan 36:35
He goes in for the kiss or he runs away. Those are his two options. Typically, you get those done? Yeah, he canceled today. I think I mean, and I think in that moment, it was Peter going, Okay. If we don’t have any sort of group setting, nobody can cause drama, and then it will be smooth sailing. Total avoidance, changing the circumstance,

Kristen McClellan 36:55
Which how many of us do that right. It’s human time to avoid our feelings. It’s so much easier to avoid them.

Lynn Grogan 37:02
Totally. And so he’s his clarity that he got was probably more. So if I cancel a cocktail party, then there’s no drama. I can go to bed. Essentially, he’s just like, this is just the last thing I need to do before I can go to bed tonight and pass out. I agree. Totally. And I think, yeah, so they all the blame turns to Kelsey, but they don’t stop there. Because then they start blaming Tammy, because why was Tammy the emotions police, right. And then they move on to MyKenna. And so it’s really all of these people are looking for some reason, some scapegoat some person who’s the cause for all these terrible emotions that they’re having in their body, not realizing that everything that’s happening is happening up in their brain. They’re having an emotion and it doesn’t mean that something has gone wrong. And I think that’s the problem that all of them are having as they think if they feel bad, something has gone terribly wrong and then they have to go hunt down the cause.

Kristen McClellan 38:00
Right, right, which we know our life is going to have negative emotion. It’s not meant to be happy all the time, right? And so you’re exactly right. They think something has gone wrong, and it’s panic. And so they drink or they blame others. I think that’s a big thing there. The theme of this is they’re using and reacting by blaming others. That’s where so much of their time is spent, which I think so many of us can relate. We kind of buffer and use blaming other people. That’s how we spend our time. That’s how we feel a little better as we become the victim. It’s not our fault. So and So made me feel this way, when in reality, we are always in charge of the way we feel no one can make us feel anything.

Lynn Grogan 38:45
Yeah. And that empowerment that they’re looking for would come from taking that back for themselves and going, Oh, I am feeling doubt because I’m worried about my relationship. And that’s what I’ve been thinking about all day, yet has nothing to do with the fact that Peter canceled this cocktail party.

Kristen McClellan 39:02
Yes. And I always like to tell my clients when you’re feeling anxious or you’re feeling an emotion, you don’t want to feel, we can always trace it back to your thought. Right? Same thing as weight loss clients, when you’re feeling an urge or you’re feeling something about food. What is your thought?

Lynn Grogan 39:19
Totally. I mean, that’s every conversation I have is just sort of, what were you thinking before that, like what was going on in your brain? And, you know, sometimes it’s easy to get there and go, Oh, yeah, that was thinking I wanted that. And it looks really good. But more often than not, it’s like, no, but really, it was my boss sending that email. It was when my husband came home and slammed the door. It’s something else. And so it’s makes sense that when we get that training in life, that this is our go to, especially on this show, and you’re totally right. They can’t make Peter the villain even though if we take a step back. Hi, we have one man dating 20 women who has canceled the party. Who is the bad guy here? But nobody wants to blame Peter because they’re trying to have a relationship with him. And I think there’s a sense that if they send any strong negative emotions his way, they’ll either be off the show or they won’t be able to fall in love with him.

Kristen McClellan 40:14
Right? Or Peter may send them home. I mean, just like, when Kelley was kind of calling him out on some stuff, I think we were all like, is she gonna go because she did that. I know. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was brave of her. But yeah, I mean, as soon as we, they’ve given all their power away to all the other women. It feels terrible. Of course, they feel terrible. What feels amazing is when you know that you have the power, to feel how you want to feel, and to take ownership out of I’m totally choosing to feel this way. Because of the thoughts. I’m thinking and you can totally do that. You can totally be negative. Like you said, you can totally be anxious. You can totally have self doubt, but just know that you’re choosing it.

Lynn Grogan 40:57
Yeah, exactly. It’s not caused by somebody else. I know that blew my mind when I first learned that I was like what I get to choose? This is amazing.

Kristen McClellan 41:04
It’s amazing. It’s so empowering. It’s what everyone’s looking for. Yeah,

Lynn Grogan 41:09
yeah. And what they’re not finding.

Kristen McClellan 41:12
Right, because no one teaches it.

Lynn Grogan 41:14
Nobody teaches it. But I do think I mean, there are some women that we see like, emoting a lot of confidence, like Madison has sailed through this show.

Kristen McClellan 41:22
Where does she go? She’s like, all of a sudden, quiet. We have ever seen anything from Madison, where she’s very confident.

Lynn Grogan 41:28
I don’t know, during that last scene, she was sitting down.

Kristen McClellan 41:31
I think because she’s probably not acting like a child. So no one wants to watch an adult.

Lynn Grogan 41:37
I know she’s very boring because she’s very confident. Yeah, she doesn’t make for good TV. Right? Well, let’s jump in. I think I mean, this kind of dovetails nicely into the last scene. Okay, we’re still in that last scene. So Peter has been telling everybody over and over again, you have to trust the process. Just trust the process as if the process leads us to a spouse didn’t really happened that streamline away from me. I don’t know about you know, it’s so what’s interesting about this is like, I don’t know that he trusts the process, because he has being told like, Okay, you go on date go on cocktail party go to rose ceremony, and here he is canceling every other cocktail party running out of rooms, getting into drama, like doing all the things that were not written into this process, like the producers have a say in this, but honestly, like most of the stuff he’s doing, it seems like it’s self inflicted, and definitely not a part of this process.

Kristen McClellan 42:35
Right. And I think again, it goes back to having his own back. He doesn’t have it, right. He’s not confident in what he decides. And so he’s bringing girls back. He’s giving girls roses, he’s taken roses back, he’s sending girls home. He’s, here’s something about someone. And so then like with Kelsey, Tammy told him what was going on. And he’d already had a great conversation with Kelsey and then he goes back and gets Kelsey And sets are down and says, Hey, someone told me that you had a mental breakdown. Right? Pilot Pete you don’t tell a woman who you’re dating. You hold rumor that she had a mental breakdown. No.

Lynn Grogan 43:18
This is how you break down everything. Like he’s done this at least three or four times. He’s just like, Oh, hey, like, I think he did that to Sydney in front of the whole group. He’s just like, Oh, hey, did you say this thing about Alayah? Why don’t tell everybody about it. Oh, gosh. Like he thinks this is the way to find a wife. But he is not following any the process himself. I mean, it does remind me a lot of my clients where we’re like, Hi, here is how you set up eating protocol. Here’s everything that you do. Here’s what the successful people do. And it works for about two weeks. And then you know, I’ll have a call with them a month later, I’ll be like, Hey, how’s it going? There’s just like, Oh my gosh, I haven’t been able to follow anything. And it’s just like there is this, at the bottom of is always this self doubt, yeah, the insecurity, this fear that it’s actually not going to work out. And so you fail ahead of time and I think a part of Pete is doing that. He’s doing all these things because he’s worried. He’s not actually going to find a wife at the end of all this. And so he’s scrambling and trying to control what he thinks he can control. But ultimately, is like leading him down this road of failure.

Kristen McClellan 44:34
yeah. He doesn’t want to process the emotions that come up, when he has his own back. And when he sends Alayah home the first time and when he has a great conversation with Kelsey, like, he doesn’t want to process those emotions. Instead, it’s like, oh my gosh, I’m feeling overwhelmed. Let’s bring Alayah back. Oh my gosh, I’m feeling like I’m not confident in my relationship with Kelsey. Let’s bring Kelsey back. Just like your your weight loss client. Don’t want to process their urges of sitting there and comfortably wanting to eat something. Yeah. And how uncomfortable is to stay on a protocol?

Lynn Grogan 45:09
Well, I think part of that is too is that we always think that the plan or the process, or the thing is going to be how we’re going to get to success. But that’s just what’s running in the background. Ultimately, it’s you having to show up and like you just said, processing all of those emotions that come up along it because like an eating protocol, which is just like another name for, you know, whatever eating plan that you’re on or whatnot, it’s just a framework for you. And essentially, it provides guidelines for you so that okay, if I’m eating two or three meals a day, if I’m eating anything outside of those meals, well that’s probably in reaction to something. And then you can check in with yourself and say, Okay, what feeling Am I avoiding here?

Kristen McClellan 45:51
Yes. And be willing to feel the discomfort literally, right. As soon as Peter feels discomfort, he panics he brings girls back and same thing with Your clients like as soon as they feel discomfort do they run and grab food? Or do they sit with the discomfort? which feels terrible, by the way?

Lynn Grogan 46:07
Yeah, it feels terrible. And that’s why most people don’t do it. I think there’s only like one to 2% of people that ever lose weight and keep it off.

Kristen McClellan 46:15
If it was easy, it would be easy. Everybody would do it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. evolving to the next version of yourself is super uncomfortable. But it’s the price that you pay to have or lose weight you want away it’s the it’s the price you pay to live the life you want to live.

Lynn Grogan 46:32
Yeah. Well, and I think it’s interesting too, is so Peter is doing all this without awareness. And now he’s going to be watching this back and seeing all the things that he’s done wrong. I think that that’s when he’s going to grow maybe into the next version of themselves, but almost having this TV produced way of getting into a watcher mode, which is how we have our clients become aware you kind of take a step back and pretend like you’re just like okay, I’m just watching my thoughts as they scroll. through my head, and watching all my actions I’m doing giving yourself a little bit of distance. So you can have awareness of what you’re doing to see if that’s how you want to keep doing things or not. And I think being on TV is like the perfect way. If you’re open to it.

Kristen McClellan 47:16
Right because we we tell people and we do it for ourselves were like, let’s just watch our thoughts go by almost like a movie. Let’s just watch the words and the sentences go by and let’s just watch it become the watcher, like you said, kind of step out of ourselves. And that’s what Peter is going to exactly do. He’s going to sit on a couch and he’s going to watch it all go by and it is that first step in changing yourself is the awareness part. And he’s going to have like the awareness handed on a silver platter to him. It’s amazing.

Lynn Grogan 47:44
If he’s open to it, he may not be willing, he might be like retreat. We see a lot of evidence of him and that’s what he does. He just retreats retreats, he’d have to be willing to stay he’d have to sit on the couch and go, okay, there’s a guy up on the screen. That was me three months ago, who made a lot decisions, even if it didn’t seem like at the moment he did make decisions, even if the decision was to leave the room, right? Do I want to keep being that guy? Or do I maybe want to like, learn how to have an emotion and process it and like, do it that way. Like, I am wondering like so you have clients that probably putting a lot of videos of themselves online, have a lot of anxiety about that, but they kind of have that watcher perspective, kind of like Peter would or any of these women would, where they get to see themselves on a screen on the regular basis. They do some part of that help them become aware.

Kristen McClellan 48:34
So I think for the women that I work with that’s one of the things that I think being online so much and showing so much of themselves and revealing and things like that really brings them to kind of a spin out of judging themselves and feeling terrible about themselves and what they should be and what so and so is doing. So people that come to me it has been something that hasn’t really served them. I teach them, how to have it serve them and how I teach them the tools and concepts that we know that can help them deal with it and get some relief from their anxiety. But the same thing could be for Peter. I mean, some of these bachelor and bachelorettes, they have all sorts of problems after they leave the show. A lot of them hide out. A lot of them have relationship problems. I followed Michelle Money for a long time. I mean, she was made the villain for years and yet, it drove her to all sorts of things. I mean, she just couldn’t get past it. Yeah, that’s what the tools and concepts come to save the day. It’s like the secret sauce.

Lynn Grogan 49:41
So like, if if somebody was like, let’s just say after this, I’m listening back to this podcast. I’m like super self judgment, self judging whatever on myself. Like what would be like the one thing that you would tell me?

Kristen McClellan 49:55
The first thing I would do is I would have you work on the relationship with yourself. Like, why why is that where your brain is going about yourself? I mean, it could just as easily go somewhere positive. I look beautiful. And my voice is amazing. And I’m so smart, and I’m so educated. Why is it going to the self-judgement? Being critical? Why is your inner bully beating yourself up for everything you did when you see yourself? So that would be the first thing we would do is what is your relationship with yourself? What do you think about yourself? And then we would go from there. Yeah. Super revealing.

Lynn Grogan 50:27
Yeah, that is super revealing. I know. I’m thinking about like, Yes, that would be useful for me. I know. It’d definitely be useful for anybody listening to this. Definitely for the people on the show.

Kristen McClellan 50:36
Yeah, absolutely. Yes. It would be so helpful for them to get in their own heads. What do they think about themselves and why?

Lynn Grogan 50:43
Yeah, but from a curious place, not like a you screwed up. Yeah, like which a lot of us go to right away. Like go to is just, this is this is terrible, what you just did.

Kristen McClellan 50:53
That’s what I think causes so much of the anxious feelings that we have is especially high achievers and successful People they achieve and they do kind of out of self loathing. They do it to love themselves, not because they love themselves. You’re exactly right. Like if we can get to the space, where we just look at everything with curiosity, and compassion, like you would treat your best friend. That’s when we really start to uncover and reveal where those beliefs come from and why we have them. And that’s where you get a little wiggle room that are able to move forward and evolve to where you really want to be not where you are.

Lynn Grogan 51:32
Yeah, that’s super useful, because I know a lot of people won’t even listen back to something or watch something or look at their whatever that they’ve put out there. Because of they’re afraid of having that mirror held up of what their relationship looks like with themselves.

Kristen McClellan 51:47
Yeah, it’s it’s hard work. It’s a lot of work and, and I tell my clients, sometimes they get off the phone and they’re like, I feel worse. I feel like you know, and I’m like, welcome to evolving. It’s work, you know, if we want to get there, we have to be willing to fill that discomfort and to fill all those things.

Lynn Grogan 52:07
Yeah. And that’s where we just see Peter trip up over and over and over again, like he’s at the edge of his comfort zone, trying to push out of it trying to go to the next level, but it’s just like, he keeps kind of stepping back into this habitual habit of being himself, which is somebody who runs and hides or people pleases or, you know, things that so many of us do.

Kristen McClellan 52:27
Yeah, it’s hard work.

Lynn Grogan 52:28
Yeah, yeah. Right.

Kristen McClellan 52:30
And it’s human nature. I think for a lot of us. That’s how we’re just wired. All right, totally.

Lynn Grogan 52:36
Yeah. Just like, when somebody is upset with you expressing upset with you, you want to make it better, you’re going to give them a rose. Even if, you know, it’s not eventually what you want. You don’t want this person to be your wife. But you know that in that moment, that’s going to make them feel good. That’s intoxicating.

Kristen McClellan 52:52
Yeah. And trying to control how they feel right? Like he’s controlling by giving the roles that they feel good now

Lynn Grogan 52:58
Yeah. It’s just something that like we kind of see him working through a little bit inch by inch. Like I have noticed him being a little bit more decisive.

Kristen McClellan 53:06
Mm hmm.

Lynn Grogan 53:08
You know, it’s like rough around the edges, but there is more of a decisiveness. He is coming around a little bit. I’m still rooting for him. I’m still rooting for Peter to find his wife. Pilot Pete you could do it.

Kristen McClellan 53:19
Yeah. Yes. I agree. It’s fun to watch him like you said kind of evolve on the show it

Lynn Grogan 53:24
Totally and all of them. The ones I get to say evolve a little bit. Right. All right. Well, that’s five moments. Kristen.

Awesome. Thanks for having me. Well, thank you for being here. Somebody wanted to find you. Where would they go looking for you online. kristenmcoaching.com and my Instagram handles the same @Kristenmcoaching.

Awesome. Well, I will have that in the show notes. lynngrogan.com/episode5. And as a reminder, hop over to my Instagram @lynngrogan. If you want to help pick the moments for next week’s show, that will be episode seven. So we had two episodes this week, will skip forward to that one. So, all right, Kristen.

Kristen McClellan 54:02
Well, thanks so much for being here. Awesome. Thank you, Lynn.

Lynn Grogan 54:05
Yay!