This week we have not one, but TWO money mindset coaches on the pod to discuss episodes 3 & 4 of How to Get Rich.
Rachelle Siebke, our series cohost is back, along with this week’s special guest, Natasha Tekeste!
Natasha Tekeste is a money mindset coach for women and people socialized as women who want to earn more money. She works with people who want to shift their beliefs around money and wealth so they can leave the drama behind and focus on actually doing the work that they love to do. She teaches people how to love the money they have, while also loving the process of earning and creating more – because it is possible for money to be easy & fun!
Natasha is an Advanced Certified Life Coach. She has a business degree from the University of Alberta, a master’s degree in Adult Education from the University of Calgary, and a certificate in mediation & negotiation from York University. She is a Chartered Professional in Human Resources with over 10 years of HR work experience.
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- Natasha Tekeste Website | Instagram | Making Work Fun podcast
- Rachelle Siebke Website | Instagram | Profit & Flow Podcast
Full Episode Transcript:
Lynn Grogan [00:00:02]:
Alright. Welcome back to the Reality Show Life Coach podcast. Today, we’re gonna talk about How to Get Rich, Episode 3 and 4. So with me today, I have the co-host for the series. Rachelle Siebke, you met her on last week’s podcast. And if you haven’t listened to that one, go back and listen as a good one. And today, we have an additional special guest for the episode, Natasha Tekeste. So, Natasha, so glad you’re here. Why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself?
Natasha Tekeste [00:00:26]:
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited to be here and chat about all things having to do with this these episodes. There was so much to dive into. So for people who don’t know me, I’m a money mindset coach, and I work with women who want to earn more money. So I help them shift their beliefs around money and wealth so they can leave the drama behind and really focus on actually doing the work that they love and want to do. So I really teach people how to love the money they have and then also love the process of earning and creating more. That’s a little bit about me and what I think is kind of in my coaching business.
Lynn Grogan [00:01:06]:
I love it. Yeah. When Rachelle said, I have the perfect person to come onto the show, and I was reading about you. And I started listening some podcasts with you. I’m like, yes. This is the perfect match. So, Rachelle, thank you for the intro and bringing us all together.
Natasha Tekeste [00:01:19]:
Thank you so much for reaching out, Rachelle. You were fantastic in following up and getting me on the podcast, so I really appreciate it.
Rachelle Siebke [00:01:25]:
Yeah. I wanna add to here. Natasha was my money coach twice. So, we worked through the first time a very specific like me wanting to earn more money and it was sort of like bringing up a lot of like worthiness and value and shame. And and then I had a little bit of a break, and then I came back and I was like, you know what? I wanna work on this time is, like, reigniting my love for money. Like, I I’m good with money and all the things that are, like, like, fun about money for me because I was sort of derailed by trying to create more money for myself that I wasn’t enjoying the things that I was already good about with money. So, I really, I have a lot to thank Natasha for that.
Natasha Tekeste [00:02:12]:
Oh, well, that’s so kind of you to say. And you are absolutely just such a good friend, and we’re so amazing to work So I love you dearly.
Lynn Grogan [00:02:21]:
Well, I was thinking we could just, like, get right into it. I mean, the show, if, you know, even if you haven’t watched, I actually think you can get a lot out of this podcast. I’ve heard from a lot of listeners. They’re like, you know what? I didn’t even watch the show, but I just listened to the recap, and I got all the things I needed. So on these episodes, episodes 3 and 4, we see some of the returning people we met in episodes 1 and 2, imani and Matt, Donell and Monique and Nathalie, And we have a few new faces, Sophina and Frank. So we have a bunch of topics today. Hopefully, we’ll get through a bunch of them. And, I think we’re just gonna kick right off. Natasha, you had such a good point that just blew my mind about our relationship with money. So do you wanna do you wanna take the first one here?
Natasha Tekeste [00:03:00]:
Yeah. Definitely. So in the episode, I think it was episode 3, Ramit says people use money to hide deeper truths in a relationship. And Specifically, he was talking about Matt and Amani and their kind of progress along the show, and that’s where that’s where that came from. And I think this hits the nail on the head because our relationship often with money tells us a lot about our relationship with ourselves. So how we talk about our money, how we treat our money is a reflection of how we talk about ourselves, how we treat ourselves, how we show up for ourselves. And I think people don’t necessarily realize that. It is that reflection. And I think when that happens, it it can be super mind blowing for people because a lot of us before we even start to dig deep into our relationship with money, we’re not treating it very well. We’re not respecting it very well, and I think it mirrors kind of ways that we’re maybe not respecting ourselves.
Lynn Grogan [00:04:02]:
Yeah. I always think about these things first for myself. Like, when I was reading this, I’m like, oh, how does this reflect my relationship with myself? And there was this moment where I was walking today where I was like, I wanna look at that.
Lynn Grogan [00:04:14]:
I wanna look at that. And I was like, okay. I should probably look at that. So I I think that, you know, I think especially here too is I get a lot out of this and just reading this. And, I’ve worked a lot on my relationship with food and how that relates the relationship with myself. So now I can see through this, especially what you’re saying, Natasha, like, oh, this is probably a next step for me to look at how those parallel because I never really thought about it in that way before just like, you know, our like, everything you were saying there. Like, it was really meaningful for me to read that.
Natasha Tekeste [00:04:51]:
But I think people often think money is about money. And, like, they’re the way they talk about it, the way they spend it is about it, but it’s it’s so much more and so much deeper than that. It’s it has nothing to do about the money, and we saw a really good example of that with Matt and Amani where Ramani went into this thinking it was just gonna be, like, sells, spreadsheets, or just filling out templates. And she thought it was just gonna be focused on the numbers, and it had nothing to do about the numbers. In reality, it had to do with their relationship to each other, how they were respecting each other, how they were respecting each other’s roles in the relationship and showing up for each other, And that is so much more powerful than how much money you’re spending on, you know, x, y, and z in your life or whatever. Right? It it’s like, how are you valuing this other person and talking to them and speaking to them and and, Connecting with them, I guess, and connecting with yourself through that relationship.
Lynn Grogan [00:05:49]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think to some extent, that really surprise, Matt and Amani. I think they’re probably like, whatever. We have, like, we make a lot of money. We’re just gonna learn some tools here. This is gonna be great. And we can see from the jump. It was a lot more than that, and they both speak a lot about feeling powerless around money. And, I mean, you see that play out in their relationship too. It’s like they They love each other. You could tell that, but they’ve somehow along the way of stop learning, knowing how to talk to each other and really communicate. And it seems that, like, Their issues around money seems to be fueling that quite a bit.
Natasha Tekeste [00:06:23]:
And I think they stopped understanding each other or seeking to understand each other. That’s what really came out to me was that they were so focused, I think, on defending themselves — or so focused on their own position that they weren’t able to put themselves into the other person’s shoes and the other per person’s perspective. And understand where that person might be coming from. And that is so powerful and so important in our relationship whatever relationships we’re in to be able to empathize and and see where the other person is coming from, even if we don’t necessarily agree, And I think you talked about this last time, Rochelle, in the last episode where you talked about those, repair conversations and being able to maybe not agree with someone, but still empathize and make them feel heard and as as though you understand and validate what they have to say.
Rachelle Siebke [00:07:16]:
Yeah. And I think in the the episode 3 where, they sort of switched roles, right? And Amani is at home working and she’s got it’s in her lap, and she’s like, she’s doing a great job with the kids, but also she’s like, oh my gosh, this is a lot harder. And I would actually rather work than have to, like, try to manage the household and the kids. And so, was just so happy to see that the way that they came together, in this episode because of the first couple of episodes they weren’t able to get through a single conversation without walking out. And, I really love that what brought them back to the table was doing the numbers homework. And so the way that I work with my client is very practical and tactical and hands on, but what I think about with money in those spreadsheets is that it brings up communication. And so many of my clients are like, I wanna work on money mindset, but also I keep avoiding it in myself coaching because I can. Right? It’s like there’s so many things to coach yourself on, but when you’re doing the numbers, when you’re doing the spreadsheets, it will come up naturally And when you’re willing to come to the relationship to yourself or to communicate with your partner, that’s when we start really getting the richness of what’s behind what’s happening. Yeah.
Natasha Tekeste [00:08:45]:
I totally agree. I think with money and money, like, issues, you need to be able to face them to bring everything up, but so many people aren’t even willing to take that first step to even look at them. And we saw that with Matt and Amani because they had all these unopened bills kind of, like, hiding in the mailbox or hiding in the corner. And that is such a common thing for so many of us. Right? We just don’t wanna deal with it, and we’d rather just keep it away because then we don’t think that we have to face the negative emotions oftentimes that shame and guilt and self judgment by not looking at it, but in reality is that and I loved Ramit and how he approaches, like, look at it and then you could come up with a plan and notice how that’s not, like, shame and judgment focus. That’s so much more forward thinking focus. And it it, to me, shows a level of self compassion. Like, it’s happened, It’s okay. What we can do now is work on fixing it, work on coming up with a plan and helping to take care of ourselves and nurture ourselves through this rather than making it a shame, blame game, or or something like that.
Lynn Grogan [00:09:58]:
Yeah. And there’s definitely those moments of repair in the moment we were talking about her wrangling the children and going, wow. This is really hard for people that must have been so rewarding for for Matt to watch just to be acknowledged in that way and to be acknowledged when he she they were looking at their internet bill. And she’s like, Oh, I didn’t realize that Matt noticed the extra service fee here. And maybe he was too nervous to bring it up because that wasn’t his domain, and now he’s been invited in. And so just their whole body language changed throughout, like, you can tell they’ve been doing a lot of work on their own outside of the camp the view the cameras just to start coming together. Because at the end of the day, it really does seem like they wanted to work together and they just needed some sort of path. And just having something tangible to work on together helped facilitate that. And it was good to see. I love to see it.
Natasha Tekeste [00:10:48]:
Yeah. It’s almost like, I think that their walls kinda came down. Like, their defense mechanisms came down. And once for me, it was able to help soften that, then they could actually connect with each other and connect with their love for one another instead of just like this superficial whenever it was, like, nitpicking or judging or blaming or fighting and arguing, like, that lack of respect, they were able to move past that and find the the true love that they actually do have and have generated for one another. And I thought that was really cool.
Lynn Grogan [00:11:22]:
Yeah. Definitely cool. You had brought up a good point in this document that we all worked on together, where Ramit had said to Matt, you know, Matt wants to get a job And Ramit had said, oh, I think this will naturally change that dynamics of the relationship in a positive way. Natasha, you had written, I’m not sure if I agree. I had actually felt the same way as you that just changing the circumstance of him working. I didn’t think that would necessarily naturally change it, but I’m curious hear your point of view on that and why why you thought that as well.
Natasha Tekeste [00:11:53]:
Yeah. I that kind of rubs me the wrong way. Because if they have a a base level right now with how they’re functioning through what it’s through essentially a lack of respect. And a lack of acknowledgement for how hard each other is working and how hard Matt is working as a stay at home parent. And just as a little, like, tiny side note and caveat, I currently am kind of my job is a stay at home mom. Like, I’ve on maternity leave, I just have, a baby. And so it has really opened my eyes to how hard this work is. Like, I would say I’ve never worked so hard in my life as, like, staying home with a baby and taking care of my child. And so I can really empathize with Matt’s position when he’s like, this is harder than any job I’ve ever felt. I’m like, yep. I hear you. I am loving that every single day. And so I think that, like, Ramit’s suggesting that Matt get a job and generate some income, I think that inherently is devaluing the work that he is doing, and it’s kind of buying into that stereotype that homemaking, taking care of your children, whatever it is, that that isn’t as valuable as working, Whereas so many people who I know that have chosen to stay at home for however long have all kind of validated for me too that this is much harder than maybe some of the freedoms of getting to, like, meet your house and go to work and things like that. So I I think that, like you said, Lynn, the changing the circumstance of now Matt going out to maybe earn some income for the family, I don’t know if that’s gonna help if they don’t change their attitudes to warn towards one another and their valuing of of one another because now you’re just adding another complicated situation where you’re managing health care. So there there’s something else now in the mix that might add additional frustration and complication and, conflict in the relationship.
Lynn Grogan [00:14:03]:
Yeah. Rachelle, I’d be curious to hear what you had you thought about that scene.
Rachelle Siebke [00:14:06]:
A 100%. I agree that changing the circumstances is not gonna change anything if they’re not connecting and seeing each other in respecting in, in, again, this, that connection. I also had something that really rubbed me the wrong way about the advice that Ramit had around splitting their, I believe he calls it the conscious spending plan. And what they did was I loved that it was like, let’s make sure that each of you get a percentage that is yours, What I didn’t love is when he asked, what are you gonna do with it? Matt said, I’m gonna save it for an emergency fund, and I’m going to maybe make some investments. And Amani said I’m gonna use it for my guilt free spending. So what I recommend is that they both get guilt free spending and the investing and the, emergency saving is joint. That is partnership goal should not be coming out of the 5% that especially knowing that Matt has not had his own guilt free spending for this whole time I didn’t love that, and I don’t think Matt did either because I don’t know about you 2, but I noticed his eyes were like, kind of He looked a little bit disappointed when she said she was gonna use it for guilt free spending.
Lynn Grogan [00:15:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. His response tells me he still maybe doesn’t feel super safe. With the money in their family. Because if he’s putting it into savings, I’m assuming it maybe goes into a separate account the way that they have it split up. There might be some aspects there where he’s just like,
Lynn Grogan [00:15:41]:
I think I need to set aside a little bit more over here. So, yeah, I curious to see what actually happens there if he does end up getting a job because I don’t know at any point if for me to actually ask him like, hey. Do you want to get a job? Do you want to not be a stay at home dad? I just think that Matt’s thinking the only way he can fix their relationship problems is if he brings in money and he’ll be respected in a different way. So the points that you both of you were making was just like, that’s very hard work to stay at home. I mean, Natasha, you know this firsthand? You’re doing it firsthand. I think that I think that Matt is thinking that, like, this is the only way to change the dynamic of their relationship, when maybe there’s a different way. And I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe he does love staying at home. It doesn’t really wanna get a job, but doesn’t see any other way. They don’t really high like, they don’t really get into that part as much.
Natasha Tekeste [00:16:32]:
I know Ramit did ask him that question. I recall because I was watching for it too when they were starting to talk about him getting a job. And so Ramit did say, do you wanna get a job? And Matt said, yes. But he didn’t really probe into it any deeper, and they didn’t really explore his desires much more than that. But what I did kind of pick up on is I just think Matt has a lack of confidence in himself and his abilities. And I think that comes through with what he said during the, like, do you wanna get a job conversation, which was that I don’t know if I’d be able to, like, keep up with, our lifestyle or the the lifestyle Imani has set up for us if I was to be the sole income earner and something was to happen to her, And I also think his, like, lack of confidence and his ability shows up with his 5% and how he’s choosing to invest and save it for an emergency fund rather than actually truly have guilt free spending. And so I think what people don’t have a lot of confidence in themselves, that’s that is how they it it it’s almost like a scarcity drive, or it’s like kind of like, oh, we gotta keep, like, they don’t trust their abilities to earn more, to create more, to continue to, like, of their wealth over a long period of time. It’s almost like shorter term thinking, and I’m not suggesting that an emergency fund or investments are in important. I think they’re very important, but so is, like, a bucket of money that you can spend freely. It doesn’t have to be a ton of money, but a bucket of money that you allow yourself to spend on whatever it is that you truly want to spend it on.
Lynn Grogan [00:18:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know how much more they’re featured on the series. I do know that on Ramit’s podcast, he does have follow ups with All of the people on their show. So I’d be curious to see where they’re at today. And I’m just so curious to see, like, hey. What happened with him getting a job? What happened there? In just to follow their story through, I feel like I’m very invested in their lives. I’m like, I wanna know what happens next. So, any last thoughts on Matt and Amani before we move on to Sofina?
Rachelle Siebke [00:18:44]:
Yeah. I thought one of the things that was really important about their transition, through, like, changing the relationship was when Amani was reflecting back on her childhood, and she was saying, like, I’ve never seen an cool partnership. Right? And so in the beginning episodes in 1 and 2, Ramit asked, do you trust him? And she said, no. And this is not the same as the other couple where the, Donell and Monique who I love. I love the way that they interact together, but that situation is actually Donell does impulsively spend more than they have agreed upon. In this situation, she just said, no, she didn’t trust him, but she didn’t say why. But I think that it comes more from that I’ve never been in I’ve never been in or seen an equal partnership. And so to me, that was really much more transformative than any, job change or situation could have brought them.
Lynn Grogan [00:19:47]:
Yeah. I mean, that’s such a good point. It’s like if we don’t see model to us what healthy looks like. We’re just gonna keep doing the things that we do. Natasha, what do you think about that?
Natasha Tekeste [00:20:01]:
Yeah. I agree. I think that’s such a valid point. If we don’t see it modeled to us, we’re either gonna just make up something that isn’t serving us, or we’ll have to try and figure out a way that works for us. And I’m really proud of Amani and Matt and how they were able to kind of, like, even though maybe they didn’t Amani specifically didn’t have that model to her. It’s like, it shows you that change is possible. You don’t have to stay stuck in the ways that you created for yourself when you didn’t have a better option, you are able to if you’re willing to get vulnerable, I guess, and willing to be open and see what else might be on the other side, you can actually create a better connection and a deeper relationship. And I think that’s kind of the power there is, like, it doesn’t because I think so many of us sometimes think, like, well, my parents had a bad relationship with money or I didn’t get to see healthy money habits or whatever. And And that is valid. And, you know, I’m sorry that that happened, and I wish better for people. Right? But, also, we can create change in our lives, even if we didn’t have that solid foundation, how we grew up. And I think that is the takeaway that’s so powerful here is that there you know, there can be positives even if the the situation was negative to start.
Rachelle Siebke [00:21:23]:
Yeah. And just to be really clear, I’m not saying that we have to repeat our processes, but that without awareness, we often will unintentionally repeat the old processes. And so when we can have awareness and bring them out and everybody can look at them on the same table, right? She can start being aware of where she’s coming from, and Matt can also then, again, meet her with that. Oh, I see you. I hear you. I understand where this is coming from. Let me show you. Let me communicate to you. That I am trustworthy, that I’m not, this repeat of what you’ve experienced in the past.
Lynn Grogan [00:22:06]:
Yeah. And I think Like, that hits the nail on the head. The, like, willingness to be vulnerable, willingness to have awareness around it because you really do see a softening from both of them of just kinda like, oh, okay. If I can just take a step back here, kinda see how things are going. It’s really beautiful to watch because, you know, to both of your points, Like, we’re not stuck in the way that we operate. And I think that’s been the most transformative thing about getting into life coaching. Is just seeing the way that you can move the needle in that way. And just even watching this show, it’s like, I think every single person moves forward in one way or another. You know, we watch these shows. We see these huge makeovers on different shows, and you’re like, oh, you should go from 0 to, like, perfect. And it’s like, no. No. No. No. No. Like, for them, just being able to acknowledge where they’re both coming from, that is moving the needle, and that’s what’s gonna build their lifelong relationship together or however long they’re together, when it comes to money and when it comes to working together on their goals. Yeah. Shall we move on to Sophina? So Sophina is our twenty seven year old single gymnasts She, has purchased a condo with an HOA and a lot of her storyline is really about, her journey to buy this condo and how proud of proud of it she is, but then also kind of being, you know, in this reality check moment with Ramit realizing that the amount that she currently make doesn’t necessarily, support all of her goals. A lot of it is going to her housing. A lot of it’s going to these HOA fees she didn’t really realize we’re going to be there when she went into this, and just trying to navigate what it looks like to live in this decision that she’s made to have in this condo. And, also, the other point here is that the condo, her condo does not have hot water. And has not had hot water for about 8 months. So one of the very first scenes that we see with Sophia is Ramit walking her through how to actually send an email and communication to the people of the HOA to, be very direct with them on getting her hot water turned back on. Very uncomfortable for Sophina to see. Natasha, what did you think about this scene?
Natasha Tekeste [00:24:27]:
Yeah. I thought it was so interesting because it shows us so much of how women are socialized. Like, She talks about how, for her, she wants to be a nice person, and she’d rather be a nice person than be direct or aggressive. And I love that she is the word aggressive there because being dig being direct and asking for what you’re paying for isn’t aggressive. That’s not it. There maybe is an aggressive way to going go about it, but the email that Ramit kinda coached her through was by no means aggressive. It was direct. It listed some facts. Maybe it was assertive. I don’t even know if it would be called assertive. Like, it was a pretty cordial email, and I just think that is so telling because, like, she would rather subconsciously, I don’t know if it’s necessarily consciously when you, like, maybe she’s not aware of it, but would rather have cold showers for 8 months plus. We don’t know when that’s gonna resolve itself. Then to approach someone on a board and ask them to do what she’s actually been paying for. And she’s paying really high fees, like $500 plus for these HOA fees. And she’s been living with cold water without I don’t think she’s even getting responses. Like, I think they’re just disregarding her and not taking her seriously. And It’s like, well, why is it more important for her to be, quote unquote, nice to people in this situation than to be nice to herself, because really being nice to herself would be resolving the situation so she could have, like, a beautiful warm cozy shower in her house. Right? And she’s not freezing. And she’s like an athlete, so I’m sure she’s taking showers often. Or maybe inconveniencing yourself and showering at the gym, but, like, it’s just like, why is it more important to be, I don’t know, to not inconvenience strangers or to not make strangers uncomfortable, but I don’t even know how uncomfortable, you know, them having to do their jobs would make them versus, like, her her own needs and what’s important to her. Like, I just think that is such there’s so much there to unpack because that was kind of my perspective.
Lynn Grogan [00:26:44]:
Yeah. I mean, and if this is happening with the HOA, very likely it’s happening in other areas of her life too. So this is, also, one of the things I love about this is that, like, he’s walking her through it, showing her how to send a direct message, probably gonna help her in many other areas of her life. It’s just that you have to be willing to feel uncomfortable if your usage is taking the back seat and just being like, you know what? No. I don’t wanna bother anybody. I’m just gonna I’m just gonna suffer through this. I’m sure as a gymnast, she has endured a lot of pain in life. Maybe she’s just like, whatever I can do with cold shower. But it’s it’s that she would have to be willing to feel — in order to approach people in these ways moving forward. And the more that she can do this, and the more that she can, like, sit with that emotion, the more she can, you know, learn to be direct, but it does come down to, like, that conditioning that she’s used to growing up and just realizing that there is another way of going about things, but maybe she just didn’t realize she had that option.
Natasha Tekeste [00:27:45]:
Yeah. What I think is so interesting is as a high performance athlete, I’m sure she’s very used to feeling uncomfortable in her body and experiencing uncomfortable situations because she I think she mentioned she has gotten a gold medal for, and she was, like, in a gymnast for 15 plus years. So it’s not that she can’t and doesn’t maybe doesn’t have the skills to experience discomfort in her body. It’s just like in this area where it comes to asking for what she wants to improve her own life or, you know, I guess, just have one of her basic needs met that she’s paying for in her house. It’s like she hasn’t necessarily developed those skills. And I kind of question if it’s a lack of, like, feeling safe. Right? Like, if we don’t feel safe in ourselves, then we’re not gonna ask of other people because we’re, like, we’re not sure how it’s gonna be taken, what if we’re gonna be taken seriously. And I and I kinda question if it is has to do with, like, She looks really young. She has, like, a very fun personality. She seems, like, awesome. But if that maybe gets her brushed aside and, like, not taken seriously, and she hasn’t necessarily learned how to how to speak up for herself in a confident way and and ask for what she wants.
Lynn Grogan [00:29:10]:
Yeah. Rachelle, what do you think?
Rachelle Siebke [00:29:11]:
I think that is such a good point to just go back one point when Natasha was talking about. Like, it’s not like she doesn’t know how to handle discomfort in her body, but we normalize what discomfort in her body is when we’re physically enduring a sport or something like that, and we do not normalize that our emotions are also just physical discomforts that they will come and they will pass. And as Natasha was saying, like, when we know that we are safe through any comfort that we have emotionally, then we can experience them differently, but it takes again some awareness and some support for ourselves and some, normalization of the fact that discomfort from our emotions, it’s not a bad thing and that we can endure it just as much as we can. I’m sure the blister she has on her hand from the parallel bars. Right?
Lynn Grogan [00:30:13]:
I love that.
Natasha Tekeste [00:30:14]:
Oh, I think that’s, yeah, so valid. The other thing I kinda just wanted to mention with it, and I think is interesting is that we know she’s a woman, but I think she’s also either black or black biracial. So there’s race coming into play here too. Right? So she has multiple intersectional marginalized identities here. And so We know that people who live in different marginalized identities in society don’t always feel comfortable, like speaking up having their voice heard being seen. And for myself, for people who don’t know me, I’m also black biracial. And so I have that lived experience of often being, you know, a minority in a minority setting, And so it makes me wonder. I’m like, well, what is the ethnicity of, you know, for the majority of the HOA members who are actually the ones looking into her her issues. Right? Like, is she being discounted, not only because she’s a young woman, but all so because of her race as well, there’s so many different facets of it that can come into play when we’re talking about individuals and their socialization.
Lynn Grogan [00:31:23]:
If she was your client, how would you help her, Natasha? Like, work through this?
Natasha Tekeste [00:31:28]:
Oh, that’s such a good question. So I think First off, I would be curious to understand why it’s important for her to be nice. Like, what does nice mean to her? Why does she need to be nice? What’s her relationship with being nice to other people? Like, why is that something that is more important than addressing the hot water issues. So I would just kinda wanna understand what’s going on there because I think that will give us more information and more context for why she’s she views having a direct email conversation as a brush of and why she views it as something she’s not yet comfortable doing. So that’s kinda where I would start with it. What about you, Rachelle? Where would you go?
Rachelle Siebke [00:32:15]:
Yeah. A 100% the same. I would do, a little combination of the way that Ramit did was like, okay. Let’s write the email together, right? If if you’re having some hurdles to it, let’s do that now, and then asking the questions we would come up with, okay, this is what you’re thinking is going to happen. Why is that? What does that bring out for you? And then we can have a more, direct, like, vision into what it is that is is leading her to, again, it’s never your fault if somebody dismisses you, but what is the thing that leads you to the point where you begin dismissing yourself? Right? There’s this part where she’s like, well, I don’t know. I’ve sent probably 20 messages. I guess it’s not going to matter how many messages I send. And so, yeah, I’m asking the questions and getting to the point where like, okay. What is it in here that is leading you to also dismiss yourself? It’s never your fault when somebody else dismisses you, but what can we do to reconnect, right, to be awareness that, oh, it is okay for me to continue to ask for hot water. Which is like a pretty basic necessity.
Lynn Grogan [00:33:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I I mean, so many good points there. And I think moving further on that when she talks about, like, Ramit when he’s, like, presenting her with ideas of, like, okay. Wade, you wanna keep the condo, sell the condo. One of the first things that she says when she’s in conversation with her mom is, but what would people think? So that is very much, like, top of mind to her. Like, that would be something that she would feel like she would have to explain to people and that she would be seen in a particular way, probably as a failure. I think she mentions along there. And so I do think if I I maybe I listened to her podcast episode with Ramit that she does end up staying in the condo. I don’t think that’s too much of a spoiler, but it’ll be interesting to see what her evolution looks like having to work through these things because it’s the hot water today. It’s something else tomorrow. It could be that these small things help her to work through some of these, like, these patterns that she has in her life.
Rachelle Siebke [00:34:32]:
I just wanted to, like, you mentioned her mom. I just wanna say, like, so much appreciation for the relationship that they have, to see them sitting, to see her asking, like, please just help me make the decision, and her mom’s saying, no, I can’t do that. Like, this really is your decision, and it really is for you to make that decision. And and she says, like, always so much easier when somebody else will tell me what to do. And I do think that that is the thing, that will really be a big part of her growth throughout the series.
Lynn Grogan [00:35:03]:
Yeah. I imagine that’s gotta be one of the hardest things as a parent when your, you know, your child is in their twenties and they’re making these big decisions and you just wanna say what they should do and yet knowing that that’s not gonna be the thing that actually helps them and watching them suffering. Like, I can’t even imagine. That must be so hard.
Natasha Tekeste [00:35:21]:
I’m having that even right now with a one year old where he’s, like, learning how to walk and learning how to, you know, move upstairs and stuff. And I can’t just, like, jump in every single time. I see him kinda like stumble. It’s like, of course, he’s safe and we have gates and stuff, but it’s also good for him to like, learn his own boundaries and make mistakes and figure things out on his own. So I’m so glad you brought up that point, Rochelle, because that really resonated with me too. I love that the mom didn’t just, like, come up with a 10 part plan for fixing her daughter’s life and situation, and she really just supported her, and she was that, like, safe parental figure for her, but encouraged her to make the decision herself and supported her through that. And I just thought that was really beautiful.
Lynn Grogan [00:36:07]:
Yeah. I love seeing examples of that on on on different TV shows actually in the bachelorette. Last season, we saw that with the mom and daughter relationship too, just throwing it back to previous podcast episodes, where it is very much just you have to make your own decision, and I think that’s just how we grow. Do we wanna talk a little bit about this no purchase, because this is definitely a hot topic on the show, renting versus buying. And I know you both have very, like, strong opinions on this. So you know, Ramit has very strong opinions on this too. And so it definitely goes against conventional, I don’t even wanna say wisdom. Just culturally buying is supposed to be so much better, and he has different takes. I’d be curious to hear both of your takes on this. What you think, renting versus buying. Rochelle, do you wanna take this first?
Natasha Tekeste [00:36:57]:
You oh, yeah. You got it, Rachelle.
Rachelle Siebke [00:37:01]:
I mean, one of the things that I think I love that you like pause on the word of like conventional Wisdom, right, because it’s more like Triton Financial advice, where I really believe that we are in a stage in an era and have been for a long time, and that we have financial advice that is repeated over and over And to me, it’s like, what safe are the lowest common denominator of, the population versus what’s actually in your desire, right? Like, what things do you actually desire versus, like, what society will tell you is a successful acquisition. And I would also say this is a great place to question. Who is benefiting from you believing that buying a house is the best decision you can make? Like, is it you or does somebody actually get a profit off of you believing that?
Natasha Tekeste [00:38:09]:
So good. So just to jump on to what you said, because I a 100% agree with that. Right? It’s It’s not that, like, from my perspective, it’s not that buying a house is wrong and renting is better. It’s not about or vice versa that buying a house is is better renting is wrong. It’s really about what makes sense for you and your life style and your priorities. So, like, when we’re talking about the rich life that you wanna create, what do you actually what aligns best with you and your vision And I love that Ramit talked about how he could afford to buy a house, but he chooses to rent because he values flexibility. And that is something that’s so aligned with me and my partner and the choices that we’ve made for over the last decade that we’ve been together is that we’ve chosen to rent because renting has just provided us with so much more freedom and flexibility. We’ve moved, cities a few times, And we’ve been able to just kind of, like, end our lease, pack up, and go, and not have to worry about purchasing and buying, and selling rather. And so those things have worked, like, best for me and my life. And, also, it’s taken kind of me examining the beliefs that I had about home ownership or about working towards that as a goal to be like a successful adult. To be able to make maybe this unconventional decision for myself and my family at this stage, but also I will say that now that we have a child, you know, I think that our priorities are shifting and changing, and we are talking about, hey, maybe it would make sense for us to buy a house because instead of the flexibility that I’ve really been valuing over the last decade or so of my life, I think stability and having a set place in a home for my child to grow up in is a bit more important, So it’s not about what’s right or wrong. It’s really about, you know, what makes sense for you in your life, but I think so many of us have been conditioned or socialized to believe that a house is that box we need to check on our way to success. And if we never check it, then we never truly meet the successful adult vision that we think we’re supposed to be working towards. And it’s really unfortunate because I think a house can sometimes be a really negative purchase for some people. I don’t think it it ends up being as valuable and rewarding and even financially prudent as some people have maybe jumped into it believe it.
Lynn Grogan [00:40:46]:
Yeah. That was definitely my experience of home ownership. I’ve largely been a RVer for the last 10 years, but there’s these 2 years in there where during the pandemic, we’re like, we should buy a house. This is what we should do. That’s the safe thing to do. And that really felt like in the moment, like, everything else is unpredictable, but here’s this very predictable thing that a lot of people do. Maybe we should do that. And we realized really quickly it was not a good fit for us for, you know, like, we also value freedom and flexibility, and it didn’t align with us. And when we could, we did sell and we got back on the road. And then it was very much just like, oh, this is home to us traveling full time. But I agree with you. It’s not, one was right or wrong. It was just more aligned with what I and what my my husband thought was, like, felt like the rich life to us was traveling and having a lot of new experiences. What I love about this call is all three of us are in different situations. Rochelle, I know you’re a homeowner. And then, of course, Natasha, you just said that you rent, for now. And it’s just three different examples, and I don’t get a sense that any of us are just, like, I don’t know about this. We’re not doing it right. We’re not, like, doing the homeownership thing. So it’s cool to see.
Rachelle Siebke [00:41:56]:
And just to share, like, part of my experience. So I bought my first house. I believe I was 23. I had my daughter when I was nineteen. I had 2 step children that were 2 years and 4 years older than her. And, I was able to pay off, like, my original goal when I was younger was, I wanted to pay off my house by the time I was fifty. And I did pay off the 1st house with the 1st mortgage. By the time I was thirty 2, and, went through an unexpected divorce in 2018, sold the house And it was up to me. Like, do I rent now and live a more, like freedom flexibility, lifestyle. But I have a dog. My daughter was still living in the area, and wasn’t, like, ready to move on, and I was looking for places to rent, and I wasn’t really finding a good fit for me. So what I would say is, like, I bought the house for emotional reasons, not for financial reasons. So, and again, that goes against a lot of conventional financial wisdom is like, well, you must have a house and, oh, you probably have a house because you’re a money coach and you think, like, no, actually, right? As Natasha says, it’s like, it’s about my values and my priorities and, like, lining those up. And so I never think it’s wrong to buy a house. But I will say I see my client sometimes trading the things that they think that the house will bring them. Right? So, in in pursuit of the house. So what I mean by that is when I ask my clients what is behind? Like, what is it you want and how do you think you’ll get to feel? What do you think your life will look and feel like when you have that thing? And they’ll say like, oh, I wanna have, like, family dinners and I wanna have, like, a lot of memories in the home, but then as they’re working and saving to buy a home, they’ll give up all of the time that they have in their home to work hours outside of the current residents that they have. So I just really want to point out the house and the acquiring of something is never the thing. It’s always how you want your life to look and feel like and helping you bring more of that into the life that you already have. So really being aware what am I trading for this future vision of what I think my life will look and feel like, and what do I already have access to? And then next thing I would say about that is I actually do because I’m like a spreadsheet nerd in, like, the worst way, but I actually did keep a spreadsheet And if you looked at what I bought my 1st house for, even though I paid the house off early, which means that I saved a ton of money on interest. I broke even. Even though it looks like I I made a big profit, there’s all kinds of things that go into owning a home that can really leave you breaking even even when it looks like you made a big profit. So taxes, homeowners insurance, like those things, you don’t get that money back. Right? Like, you just have to have it in order to have the house. So I really love the way Ramit talks about, how did he say it, if either of you remember exactly, but it’s like, Rent is the highest that you will pay, right? It’s the top end of what you will pay in your mortgage is the low end. Like, it’s pretty unpredictable. That’s you have to pay at least that much, but it’s gonna be much more.
Lynn Grogan [00:45:43]:
Yeah. I I definitely think that’s what he said. That resonated with me because that was my experience for sure. I mean, I felt like I was just working to pay for the home that we had. And that wasn’t that didn’t feel good to me. While you were talking, Rachelle, I was thinking about Donnell and Monique. They’re one of their big goals is to purchase a home, and I really do think for them is that they are thinking more so about what they want to happen into the home. They want their children and grandchildren to come and have all of these memories. And I truly think that they could have that renting or buying. Like, they could create that wherever they are. And I don’t I don’t know if they’ve stopped to think about that, really. I don’t know if comes up in the series at all. Not that they showed or shouldn’t, but it’s just, like, how does that fit into all the other things that they want in life and does makes sense. I mean, Monique has this beautiful business that she just started for herself. It’s like, she may wanna invest in that at some point. We’ll see. So but it is interesting to think about because most people that you would talk to would be like, well, of course, you should buy a house. That’s an amazing investment. And everybody should do it, and that should be the goal. And it’s like, suddenly, we have this different perspective on it, and then we get to talk about it in a different way, which I like.
Rachelle Siebke [00:46:58]:
Yeah. And I can’t tell you really the amount of shame and, really the amount of shame and disappointment that my clients who don’t own homes have about not owning a home. And I just wanna say, is that really the metric that you want to use to decide whether you’re successful and, like, living your best life? Maybe it is, but also be really clear of like why that is. And if it’s try financial advice that is, like, repeated or because, like, your uncle’s gonna ask you about it at Thanksgiving. You might wanna just, like, dive into it a little bit and re question that.
Natasha Tekeste [00:47:37]:
And I loved that Ramit actually broke down. I think the example was with Sophina where he showed how much of her mortgage payment was actually going towards the principal and how much was going towards interest. And she was spending more on interest than she was on the principal. Which for most people in, a homeownership relationship. For the 1st 10 years or so, you’re actually spending more on interest than you are on your principal. And until you actually look at the numbers and break it down, like, I would say people don’t realize that. They don’t realize that sometimes they can be spending almost the same amount of their cost of their house in interest over that 25 or 30 year span, and I think that is a real eye opener when people start to see that. So I really love that he showed that because not to bring it back to Sophia, but I know we’re talking about Donelle, Monique, but I wanted to just mention that, like, she thinks that now that she’s bought her house at such a young age, it’s like a good investment. It’s like her being a successful adult. And then selling it would be a failure on her part or her making a mistake, but it’s so interesting because it’s like, Yeah. But then what if the numbers are showing us the opposite is true? And oftentimes people are unwilling to look at the numbers to make a decision. And instead, they’re kind of just like, oh, well, this, like, looks better. It feels better in this way without even examining it a bit closer. And it’s so funny because, like, it’s possible that selling a bad investment or an investment that isn’t working out for her or something that, you know, she doesn’t want anymore. Is actually a great learning and an example of her growing and changing and developing and not failing at all. But the fact that she kinda just views it as a failure, I think, is so telling because p every one of us are have been taught or told that, like, having a home is that metric. It is, you know, how we can measure ourselves. But when the numbers tell a different story, are we willing to reevaluate that decision and make a choice that maybe might look a little bit different to other people.
Lynn Grogan [00:49:52]:
Yeah. And I really think that this was almost the theme for these 2 episodes. Almost all the episodes is like, hey. Let’s just look at the math. Let’s just look at the actual details and the facts and then take a step back. And if you’re willing to see and, like, just check your thinking on what you’re currently at, Does it miss make sense for where I wanna go with my life? And if it doesn’t, are you willing to make a different decision and let that be okay? And that’s the heart for a lot of people. This week. Yeah.
Natasha Tekeste [00:50:21]:
I was gonna say this is where I think that a relationship with money shows us our relationship with ourselves. Right? Like, so when we look at the numbers, what comes up with for us? When we’re faced with a decision like selling our house, what are we faced with in terms of our thinking, and that shows you how you’re thinking about yourself. Like, Sofina thinks that this is a failure, and she’s like, well, I don’t wanna be a failure. Why, like, why is that now that she is a failure. Right? Like, where is she not having her own back and treating herself with kindness and high self regard and love? And respecting kind of her journey as an adult who’s learning and growing along the way instead of just making it a blanket statement like I’m a fit. — this is as if she’s, like, now landed upon, like, this step of the journey that is just, like, bestowed upon her this, like, failure status. Right?
Lynn Grogan [00:51:21]:
Oh, totally. Yeah. Exactly. Like, she can make a different decision. It doesn’t have to mean anything about her, and I think that’s just so much pressure she’s putting on herself. It’s just like, hey. You bought a thing. Maybe you made a different decision. I don’t know. I think she sticks with it, but we’ll see. I feel like we could talk forever here, but, we’re we’re at time for today. Do you wanna each give one last thought before we wrap up? Natasha, do you wanna go first?
Natasha Tekeste [00:51:48]:
Hopefully. So I guess kind of what I’d like to just leave you all with. Is the idea that you are allowed to make decisions for yourself however you see fit. Right? It’s like question the conventional quote unquote advice that you get. Question what people, other people, maybe your parents or teachers or friends have kinda taught you is important and and start to question whether or not you actually think it’s important. Because in reality, when we’re talking this, like, dream for your rich life, it’s really about you and that vision for yourself and having the confidence to allow yourself to to believe that what you want is valuable and has marriage, right, It doesn’t have to just be about the show for other people or what other people think is better, what other people want. Like, your desires, your thoughts and opinions, they that they matter too, and they hold them in high regard, right, allow yourself to explore them and dig into them. And I think that is how you start to create and cultivate your rich life. It’s like allowing yourself to do the unconventional or different thing and let that be okay and see what happens if you take a different path.
Rachelle Siebke [00:53:15]:
A 100%. I echo all of that. And I just have to, like, go back to Donell and Monique for a minute because I love, love, love them. I love their relationship. I love how even when conflict comes up, they’re sort of, like, light and playful and a little bit teasing, but also direct. If you go back to that scene, I believe it’s episode 3, where Monique asks Donell, like, how do you think it’s going? And he’s like, oh, I think it’s fine. And she’s like, I think he spends more feverishly than I do. And he’s like, I do not. And she’s like, when you’re willing to see it, then you will be able to change it. And I thought she did such a beautiful job of being really direct and not mean at all, right? Like it wasn’t nitpicky. It was just really direct. I just think they show so much love for each other and I think they do a really great job of communicating. So if you haven’t watched the episode, 3, I think they do a really great job in having some direct conversations, and you can even see there’s a point where it’s like, it spikes where it could be conflict. And she said, never did I ever say that we’re in this position, I own this with you and I want to go further. I want to go farther with you. Right? I want you, you know, like, I want to be in this with you, and I think parts of this aren’t going that well. And I just want to give them so much love because I have a lot of respect for their relationship. So how about you Lynn? Anything you wanna leave with?
Lynn Grogan [00:54:54]:
Well, I have to say that, Natasha, I think that you just gave us the title for this podcast. I was like, question the conventional. For sure. I obviously agree with that a 100%. But anything that seems to be quote unquote wisdom If it’s amazing for you, go with it. If it’s not question it, and I think that’s what the types of questions that Ramit’s bringing up in here that everybody’s starting to think about. And think about on their own terms rather than going, like, blindly into them or unknowingly into them because I think they should. It’s beautiful to see I just wanna thank both of you for coming on here and giving your perspectives. We could talk for more hours. I could just see you’re both like, oh, we’re just getting revved up here, and I’m sorry for cutting you off. We’ll have to just, like, keep going with this at a future time. But it’s just I it’s given me a lot to think about for sure I am excited to listen back to this to see what I can apply to my own life and how I can, you know, better serve my clients in the coaching world because This does come up for all of us. It doesn’t matter if you make a ton of money. If you make a little money, whatever, we all deal with money. And we all have thoughts about money. We all have relationships about money. So this gives us a lot to think about. So just thank you both for coming on. I appreciate you so much.
Natasha Tekeste [00:56:07]:
Thank you so much for having me. It was so so much fun to be here, and I’m really excited to listen to the other episodes of the podcast and hear all the juicy things that you guys dig into. So I’m looking forward to that.
Lynn Grogan [00:56:19]:
Yes. And if people wanted to find you online, Natasha, where would they go looking?
Natasha Tekeste [00:56:22]:
Yeah. Definitely. So you can find me on my website, which is just my first and last name .com. So, Natasha, and then I’ll spell my last name for you, te k e s t e. Dotcom. You can find me on my Instagram handle, which is my first and last name. And also my friend Maria and I run a or host a really fun, podcast called Making Work Fun. And we talk about all things to do with work, coaching, fun, finding more joy in your life, and how to embed joy and fun into your everyday work, whatever it is that you call works, you can come find us there too.
Lynn Grogan [00:56:56]:
Yes. Amazing. That will be in the show notes, all of your links, and then Rochelle will be as well. Thank you for both for coming on. This is such a great episode.
Natasha Tekeste [00:57:05]:
Hi. Thanks for having us. Bye.
Rachelle Siebke [00:57:07]:
Hi. Thank you
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Hi! I’m Lynn Grogan. It’s my passion as a life coach to help you escape the status quo and live a fulfilling life on your own terms!