Men Tell All with Germaine Foley | The Bachelorette S20, E8

Lynn Grogan:

All right, welcome back to the Reality Show Life Coach podcast. Today we’re going to talk about season 20, episode eight of The Bachelorette. And with me today, I have our special guest, Germaine Foley. Germaine, why don’t you introduce yourself?

Germaine Foley:

Hello, everyone. My name is Germaine Foley. I am a life and money coach and I help women who like to spend. I help them take control of their money and build wealth without sacrificing their lifestyle.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. And you have a podcast and I was listening to it on my walk today and I was just like, oh, there’s so many nuggets of goodness in here. You have your story on there and you have so many 15 to 30 minutes episodes on there. So it’s like easy to listen to on commute or whatever.

Germaine Foley:

Wealthy woman’s podcast.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. So before I do this show recap, what is your experience watching Bachelor or Bachelorette?

Germaine Foley:

Okay, so when it first came out, I was hooked. So I remember it from the firestone days, I think it was. He was like the bachelor. And I really watched Trista and Ryan, like the first Bachelorette. I watched that one as well. But I have to admit, I have not been watching for a while now. So going back and looking at season 20, I’m interested in it again. So I’m excited to talk today.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah, me too. And I mean, honestly, the formula has not changed. It’s so wild how if you watch those old episodes, you’re like, okay, wow. Okay, this is almost the exact same, but different elements socially have changed. Like Instagram was not a thing or in the early days and now it is like influencers and all that. Anyway, this was the Men Tell All. I have to be honest, this is like my least favorite episode just because it’s usually a lot of just people complaining and attacking each other and you’re just like, I just need to know what happens because next week is the finale. Shouldn’t surprise anybody but Brayden is the center of attention from the jump. We have a lot of discussion about him, which obviously he’s come up a lot on this podcast series so far. There’s this weird moment where they talk about this Peter guy who is legitimately only on for maybe 30 seconds in the first episode. I don’t know what went down behind the scenes on social media, but there was a lot of attacking and bullying there, which was kind of curious because usually you don’t see much of the outside world come into the show in that way and so they do cover that part of it. We have a hot seat with Xavier, with Charity. We’ll definitely talk about that today. After that we have Sean, who invites himself up to the hot seat, which I have never seen before, which is quite amusing. We have three of the older bachelorettes have come on to give Charity advice. And then we have Gerry, the Golden Bachelor’s introduced. We’re actually going to talk about him a little bit today. And then, of course, we have recap and bloopers and a little bit of a preview of next week before we end the show. So there we go. So I think if you want, we can just jump right into our coachable moments, the things talk about today, because I think we did want to talk first about Xavier and Charity. What did you think about their exchange?

Germaine Foley:

I thought that it was such a good example of believing someone when they tell you who they are. So Xavier was very open and honest. I think he waited a little long to be open and honest about his commitment, his fear of commitment, his fear of losing his freedom. I 100% agree he could have said that a little sooner, but I love the fact that once he said it, that Charity really decided, like, okay, I’m going to believe you and I’m not going to continue this relationship with the hopes of you changing or with the hopes of me being able to change you. So I thought that was just a really great example of a woman just standing in her power and not taking the BS. I mean, seriously, I think there’s no.

Lynn Grogan:

Better way to say it than the BS. Because she said it on last week’s episode, too, of she gave him all the opportunities in the world to tell her how he had changed from that experience and he really had zero answers, was having a hard time with it. And so it was really interesting for me to see this week how he came back and he said how he had actually gone about the work of going to see a therapist and initiating change and at this point for himself, because of what you had just said. Charity was like, no, this is the end of the road for us. But it was cool for me to I think it’s cool to see how he used that as a way to do his own personal growth. But it doesn’t mean that that means that Charity is then banking on a future with him or would accept him back in from that. I don’t know where I was going with this, but yes, I agree to see that exchange.

Germaine Foley:

Yeah, I’m glad he’s doing the work, seeing what is the cause of him not being ready for that leap. But like you said, Charity had already made her decision. But maybe, like I said, everything we go through in life, we can learn from. Hopefully this was his opportunity to just and grow so that he can one day become that man, that faithful man and husband that some woman would want him to be. Yes.

Lynn Grogan:

And I just think it’s an empowering moment for everybody to see. Just like Charity sticking to our guns there, you can see almost a level of restraint from her in those moments. Where he’s explaining things to her. I did not hear an apology. I kind of thought that one was merited just because of the timing that you had mentioned. I think even watching back to the recaps where she was being open and vulnerable with him about her experience of infidelity and how that had hurt her and it was like the perfect opening for him to be like, hey, listen, I need to level with you here. I have been the one doing this in the past. I had this experience and so I can see where she’s coming from. And I think more young women really need to see this type of example because often in the past, in these types of shows, it’s just kind of been like, oh, he’ll figure it out, he’ll learn, he can change. But there’s no motivation to change in that type of a scenario. If she’s like, oh, well, let’s just go forward from here and hope for the best. Probably not going to happen.

Germaine Foley:

Exactly. And he even said that he had a fear of losing his freedom. It wasn’t only that, hey, I’ve made a mistake in the past and I’m looking to change. It was still like, I’m still afraid. I’m still afraid of losing my freedom. So yeah, he wasn’t ready.

Lynn Grogan:

He wasn’t ready, which totally makes sense for his age as well. I think he was, what, like 26 or 27. And even though charity is the same age, it doesn’t mean that you’re at the same place in life. And I do wonder, it’s like not many of us get this opportunity to date several people at the same time. And I think it’s almost like in having the contrast between Dotun, between Joey, between Aaron B, where she’s like, okay, these people are ready for me and these people are not ready for me. And I think sometimes when you’re dating or when you’re starting anything new, you don’t necessarily have the parallel experience happening with anyone else because you usually have one job at a time, one person you’re dating at a time, one way you’re living at a time. And so I think that’s what’s almost fascinating sometimes watching this show is that you get to see so many different things happening at the same time. And it’s almost like it makes it easier to be like, I’m tolerating this or I’m not tolerating this. And I mean, with him, she’s just like, I thought so generous and how she interacted with him, because I have also seen in the past where the lead might attack, might attack that person, but she was just like, good for you, but also not cool what you did for me.

Germaine Foley:

To me, yeah, I love that she just stood her ground. Like you said, she’s a perfect example of someone that young women can just look to and just so they’re not putting themselves in those positions where they’re just expecting or hoping that someone would change when they’re not going to. Especially like nowadays. A lot of times the men are very honest and we still don’t believe them.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah. It’s almost like if she had taken him in, there would have been like he needed to do the mental work on his own to actually change. We can’t just be like, my actions will all change, but I’m still the same person. Like, your actions probably are not going to change unless you do the mental work to actually change things. So I’m super glad to hear that he’s doing that work, but he still has probably many therapy sessions to go in order to get to the place where he’s open and ready to commit, if that’s what he wants in life. Not everybody ends up wanting that. And maybe this is eye opening for him to kind of have that mirrored back to him.

Germaine Foley:

That’s so true. And he is like you said, he’s very young, so there’s that.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. And I also like too that his honesty allowed Charity just to move on and just say, you know what, I’m clearing up space for this. Almost like, I don’t want to say like decluttering your home, but sometimes it’s like when you take away the things that are no’s for you, it makes the yeses so much easier to see.

Germaine Foley:

Absolutely. I agree with that 100%. He gave her a gift. It hurt heartbroken over it, but it really was a gift so that she can really see like, okay, who is the one for me?

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah. When they ended it, it felt a little bit still unresolved, like he had knitted her this little rows and handed it to her. It almost seemed like a little kid, like giving his mom a flower, just being like, sorry, mom. And you just almost saw the maturity differences at that point.

Germaine Foley:

Yeah, that was so for me. I didn’t watch a lot of the other episodes so the knit rose was like, what’s going on here? But then I went back and watched because I was so intrigued. The hometown episodes, I’m like, oh, he knits. Now it makes sense.

Lynn Grogan:

What does somebody think about this out of left field? Because at mean, if you hadn’t watched the episode, he leaves the stage for a good I don’t know, it felt like a really long time. I’m sure it was only like 3 seconds, but it was like, where did he go? What is he doing? And then he presents I didn’t know what he was about to happen and he presents this rose. And I was like, okay. I was like, if it were me, that might be going right in the trash.

Germaine Foley:

Yeah. She was so gracious and she accepted it. And then they moved on to the next segment.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. I’ll be curious to see after this if you’re not familiar with the Bachelor franchise, there’s Bachelor in Paradise where all the kind of quote unquote leftovers or people who didn’t make it on the show. Go, I’m like, I’ll be really curious to see if Xavier ends up there because he clearly has a lot of work to do before he’s committing to someone. Not that those people on the beach in Bachelor in Paradise actually see a lot of marriage or any commitment happening after the fact, but I’m sure if he gets anything out of this experience, that would be a good one.

Germaine Foley:

Well, we know Brayden will be there.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes, I’m sure we’ll see lots of familiar faces on that beach.

Germaine Foley:

Yeah.

Lynn Grogan:

The person I suspect we’ll see there is Sean.

Germaine Foley:

Who oh, yeah, he’ll be good over there.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah. What did you then when Sean invited himself up on stage, which I’ve never seen before. What did you think of him doing that?

Germaine Foley:

It was so awkward. I was like, what is going on? And you could tell everybody was just like, what is he doing? So it was definitely not planned, but it’s interesting. Like, he broke the rules. And times in life, we do need to break the rules. I’m not sure if that was the time to break the rules, but I do agree that sometimes, especially as ladies, we need to be willing to bend the rules a little bit to our favor.

Lynn Grogan:

I think so, too. Yeah. And this is where I think Germaine and I are going to go a little rogue here. So we’re going to use the example of Sean being rebellious and going on stage just to kind of talk about how what you were just saying, Germaine, is this show. I think when you watch it, you recognize there is a lot of rules throughout. Like the producers tell them when to stand, when to sit, when to like, they can talk to Lee when they can’t. And so this is why it surprised me, and probably why you never see it here, is that they’re so trained at this point to do and follow the rules, which for a lot of us growing up, going through school all the way through adulthood, we are trained to follow the rules. And that’s what makes it interesting when you see somebody who’s not doing it, because I don’t think it occurs to us on a regular basis, like, oh, maybe I don’t have to do everything I have been told in life. Maybe I don’t have to do those. I do that a lot in my life. And even just hearing how you work with your clients, most people, when they think about a money coach, would probably think, like, oh, my gosh, well, what do people think that you do when they would start to work with you?

Germaine Foley:

Put me on a strict budget. I’m not going to be able to buy my lates. I can’t do anything anymore. I’m going to have to eat rice and beans. And I am the total opposite of that. Like, so many financial gurus that we probably have all heard of. They tell us women. And this message is directed at women. It’s not directed at men. That the only way that we’re really going to be able to build wealth is if we stop buying two or three, maybe $5 lattes or stop buying so many shoes or coupons. So it’s all about restriction and cutting back and yeah, I just think we throw all of those away. So that’s kind of what happened with me. I feel like the reason why I was so stuck financially was because I thought I would have to give up my lifestyle. I would have to go be this boring, frugal person in order to get my money under control and start to build wealth. But then I was just like, hey, what if I just decided that I was going to do it my way and kind of break the rules a little bit, take control of my money, build wealth, and still go to Starbucks?

Lynn Grogan:

Yes.

Germaine Foley:

What if I just decided that I’m going to figure out a way to do both? And that was the freedom for me. That’s when I just really was able to change my life and change my circumstances. And now that’s what I help women do. So a lot of women come to me burnt out from trying to live that kind of life, and when I tell them, like, you don’t actually have to do that, they’re just relieved. I am all about bending and breaking rules that don’t serve you.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. And I know everybody can’t see you, but you just lit up when you started talking about that because it’s lovely to see we go about life. We have these rules. And I know that for me, my experience around money rules is sort of like, well, you get the job and then you need to have consistent money coming in throughout, which doesn’t lend towards somebody’s breaking the rules, essentially to become an entrepreneur where things can fluctuate a lot. There’s not a lot of safety in that. And so I really think hearing different ways and different stories about how people can do things really lends to that. And so, I don’t know, I think there’s something to it of just having the ownership and just being like, you know what, I’m going to do things differently. And I love that you do that for your clients.

Germaine Foley:

Absolutely. And so when they come to me, it’s never like, okay, this is how it’s going to be done. It’s like, okay, let’s talk about what are your goals? What do you really value in life? And let’s funnel your money to those things and away from the things that really don’t matter. Because a lot of things that people spend money on, they could care less. They don’t even know what they’re buying. It’s just very impulsive. And so we just try to funnel money away from those things to the things that really matter to them so that they can really enjoy life fully.

Lynn Grogan:

Okay, I’m going to put you on the spot here. When’s the last time you broke a rule?

Germaine Foley:

A rule?

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah, like a common rule that people would be like, oh, I got one, do it this way. Yes.

Germaine Foley:

So I was on vacation, and I really had to go to the bathroom, and they had a men’s bathroom and a lady’s bathroom, but there was just one stall in each. I went in a men’s bathroom. I’m sorry. Just had to do it. And when I came out, there was a man, like, waiting to get in. I was like, Oops, sorry.

Lynn Grogan:

My bad, my bad. I know, I know. I love like, when I think about Sean, and this is where I think there’s the difference between women and like, if we were to talk about it from the perspective of why did Sean think he could do that, I was like, I would guess that there’s a little entitlement there. I would guess that he’s been taught that he could be center stage. And so that’s kind of almost why I wanted to talk about it from a different perspective because we kind of know why he did it. But I don’t think that rule breaking is just for people like Sean. It can be for the rest of us. It can. Like, for those of us, especially like, women who’ve been should upon our whole lives, this is what you’re supposed to do. That kind of yeah, it was kind of fun to think about from that perspective because I was like, Sean is also somebody I was like, I don’t know if I want to talk about him again on this episode.

Germaine Foley:

I could tell that he was probably on there. That was talked about a lot. Here’s the thing for him, who knows? This could have been his final time in the limelight. And he’s like, listen, I’m going all in. I’m going to take as much spotlight that I can. Who knows what he was thinking?

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah, I was like a he was probably dared to do it. But I do think, though, there’s a lot of times where that kind of boldness could serve us. I think about how many over the years job descriptions I’ve read where I was like, oh, you might rule yourself out immediately because you’re like, well, I don’t have four years of management experience, so it’s probably not for me. I think there’s a lot of almost that not for me attitude that comes into things. Where do you see that a lot?

Germaine Foley:

Oh, yeah. And here’s the thing about that. There are so many studies saying that women won’t apply unless they hit every single bullet under the qualifications headline. But men, they could have sometimes none, and they will still apply. And then the other issue with that is with women, when it comes to we hear it all the time, the pay gap. Right. So some studies have been done to kind of really dig deeper into it. Like, why does that pay gap even exist? One is because men, they negotiate more often than women do. So that’s one of the reasons. So not saying that that’s the only reason. Of course there are disparities and things like that, but honestly, the fact that we don’t negotiate and I learned how to negotiate from a male colleague, and I was so nervous, I was thinking that they were going to tell me, oh, no, we want to withdraw the offer. He was like, no, this is how you’re going to go in there and you’re going to ask for it and this is how you’re going to say it. And so now I teach my clients exactly what he taught me. Yeah.

Lynn Grogan:

That is awesome. Yeah. Because I just think we don’t think we can ask I don’t think we think we can go on that stage if nobody invited us up. And so I don’t know. I always wanted to look at it as just being like, well, what if I invited myself to up the stage? What if we all did? And so I don’t know. I love to hear that. The things that we don’t think we can have because you could have just been like, well, for men to be able to negotiate like that, but it’s just like, you know what, teach me everything you know and then I’m going to go use it. And so it’s just like, you got to find those resources where they are. But I love now that you have it and now you can teach your clients and the humans around you, like how that can good. Yes. I wanted to find something good out of this Sean rebellion thing because I was like, could have gone a different way with that lad.

Germaine Foley:

Yeah, that is a good way to look at it.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah. So Sean’s probably one of the youngest people on the show, but we also got the experience of seeing someone quite older. So in the fall, the Bachelor franchise was bringing on Golden Bachelor, which is older seniors. They’ve never done this before. And they introduced their lead on the show. Gerry, who is 71 years old, I think you had made the comment like, he looks like he’s 15 years younger.

Germaine Foley:

Yes. I was shocked when I said 71. I was like, looks amazing. He looks great. I’m excited for his episode. He may be the one that brings me back. Brings me back. Who knew?

Lynn Grogan:

I know. I was like, oh, I don’t think I don’t even want a podcast about that season. I just want to watch it and all of its deliciousness. I thought he was going to be one way and he comes on and he’s pretty goofy and he’s pretty open and vulnerable. And I was like, okay, I can see why they picked him. And of course, because this was almost his intro package here they did show his history with his wife of how many was it, 40, 50?

Germaine Foley:

I think it was 41, if I’m not mistaken. Very long time. Very long time.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah. And they show the whole montage of his life. And unfortunately, his wife passed away, and that’s why he’s available now to be the Golden Bachelor. But it was really interesting to hear his take on relationship and love and what he’s looking for on the show. And you had pointed out something that we want to talk about here. So what did Gerry say? I’m trying to remember right now on the show.

Germaine Foley:

He said that he’s looking for someone to make him whole again, as if he’s not whole already. And that just made my heart a little sad because I think a lot of people do go into relationships thinking that the other person is going to complete them or make them whole or fill a void. I really do think that that kind of attitude going into a relationship could be detrimental because we both know that no one else can complete you. No one can make you whole because it’s impossible because you are already whole. You are already complete. And I just want him to know that, like, if he was listening, I would want Gerry, is it Jerry?

Lynn Grogan:

Is it one of the two.

Germaine Foley:

That he’s whole already? And then whoever this lady, she’s going to be a lucky lady because he seems amazing. Whoever she is, she’s just going to complement his life. They’re going to be able to just have a fun life, but they can both be two whole individuals, and then they can bring themselves together and just have a great life from yeah, like.

Lynn Grogan:

When he said that, I also kind of tilted my head because right before that, he had said something that I thought was really wise. He had talked know, I think Jesse the host had asked something know, are you looking to find the same type of love again? And Jerry, Gerry, whatever his however, I’ll figure it out by a couple of weeks from now. He had said, you know what, when I was looking for my wife or when I met her, I was late teens, early 20s, indicating that he at 71 would be looking for something else. And I was really like, wow, that is a really awesome perspective to take because I do think a lot of people are like, well, if you have one great love of your life, you either don’t have another one or you’re looking for the same thing again. You’re looking for a replacement for that person. And it didn’t sound like he was thinking about that at all. But then you’re right. He followed it up with like, I’m looking for somebody to make me whole again, which is along the lines of, like, I’m not worthy enough. But it’s also suggesting that he is potentially looking for somebody to make him maybe not grieve anymore, not feel sad anymore to make him feel happy, almost like he’s asking somebody to come in and do the extra work, like emotional work, because he doesn’t feel quite himself or he doesn’t feel quite right. And so it does make me wonder, even though he’s 71 and has been single for a while now, six years, it’s like, is he ready?

Germaine Foley:

Based on what he said, yeah, I hope he is. And I hope that was just something that came out of his mouth that he didn’t mean. I hope the first part of the answer where they ask, what are you looking for? That was more in line with what he’s looking for. And hopefully he has grieved because finding someone new won’t help. With the grieving, you may be able to feel better, but it won’t help you to really process grief. You know what I mean? That’s something you really do have to do on your own. And I just always tell anybody that I know no one else can make you happy. It’s impossible. And whenever you have that kind of pressure on another person, it’s just unfair because they can’t do it. So hopefully he will realize that and everything will work out and be well. I’m excited to see the women who they choose as the women. I’m so excited to see that pool.

Lynn Grogan:

I am so excited, too. And one of the things I’m curious about, and I’ve noticed on lots of seasons of Bachelor, Bachelorette is the type of friendships that are formed amongst the cast members. And I think you definitely see it with most of the men on charity season. They seem very bonded with each other. They seem like they’re probably going to be like some of them, lifelong friends. And so I do think that’s a side benefit nobody expects is that like, oh, there is going to be also this bonding here as we date this guy, but then there’s also that. So I’m kind of curious to see what that dynamic will be like because it’s hard to make friends as an adult. It doesn’t have to be, but for a lot of us, it can be really hard. And so I think too, is you get to see this example of older love. You get to see this example of somebody who is trying to find love after grief, after having had someone that you would consider the love of your life. And so I’m very curious to see what all the dynamics will be with humans that are probably more mature, maybe, hopefully, who knows? But we haven’t seen much in terms of someone who’s grieving. They’ve had a few cast members throughout the years who have lost a partner along the way, but never I don’t know if they’ve probably had one or two leads, maybe that would fall into that category, but I don’t know that we would have seen it in this particular way before. So I’m kind of curious to see how they’ll present it and what we as audience members can learn from the experience. Yeah.

Germaine Foley:

I’m also curious because he has quite a few daughters, I wonder what role they’ll play as well, because I’m sure they’re protective of their father. It seems like they have a really good relationship with him, so that’ll be interesting, too. And he has granddaughters, too.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. I hope they all make cameos on the show. I was like, he’s probably going to need help. He strikes me as somebody, too, that probably has people in his life that he would consider confidants or he seems like somebody throughout the year who would have mentors. And so when he’s on his own, I’ll be curious to see how he navigates the world. Because you haven’t dated for a long time. It’s like a brand new skill. Whereas I think on The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, a lot of those people have experience in the dating world because they haven’t been married yet.

Germaine Foley:

That’s so true. So he’s going to I think he’ll have a lot of fun, but it’s going to be challenging for him, too. I think it’s going to be a nice mix of both.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. And I really hope because these ladies he’s dating will probably be older and wiser, that if he does say something to them, like, hey, I need you to make me whole again, they’d be like, okay, listen, we need to get something straight here. That is not my job.

Germaine Foley:

Well, if they know that, because I think a lot of people still think that it is like, it is their job to make their spouse happy. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people that yes.

Lynn Grogan:

So it was nice to get a glimpse of this and to get excited about the show. And then at the end, we also get a glimpse of what’s going to happen and go down next week, finale week. There is this really compelling scene that they showed us of Charity with her mom. She’s asking her mom, what should I do? What should I do? And her mom is just like, I can’t make this decision for you. You have to make it for yourself. And I wanted to get your take on this because next week we’ll know everything. This week we’re just speculating. What did you think of that scene with her mom?

Germaine Foley:

I almost felt like I was in the scene, like, filling all of the emotions that charity was feeling and begging her mom, like, mom, please help me. I can really empathize with her. But I am so happy that the mother said, no, I can’t make this decision for you. This is all on you because you have to live this life. You have to choose the person that you think is best. And here’s the thing. If her mom would say, you know what, I think you should go with him or him and it doesn’t work out and she listens to her mom and then it didn’t work out, she could potentially blame her mom for that. And you just want all of that away and just let just sit with yourself and you make the that you know you need to make.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes, that was my first thought too. It’s just like this is probably one of the harder things that her mom has had to do. I mean, it’s obviously a very hard decision for charity as well, but she probably just wants to protect her. She probably wants to take her pain away. It would be the easiest thing in the world to just be like, you know what? I kind of like this one better. He seems better suited for you give that perspective. But you’re absolutely right. It’s probably going to be harder on the relationship if her mom did basically make the decision for her and then it doesn’t work out later. That would be really for a lot of people. Just like maybe you would blame the parent, or maybe you would say it’s almost like a moment where her mom was like, my daughter needs to learn and grow, and this is the best gift I can give her. Is helping her see that she is empowered to make this decision, even if it seems like the hardest decision in the world to make right now.

Germaine Foley:

Yes. And she is. She has everything. I think she knows which way to go. I think she has everything she needs to make the right decision. I’m going to say right with quotes, air quotes, but I think she does have everything she need to make the decision.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah. And I think, like so many of us do this in life, though, we’re just looking for somebody else to tell us the answers. If it’s not a parent, it might be probably for your clients, like some sort of financial advisor or guru or back when I was doing weight loss coaching, it was like, just give me the plan. Just give me the answers. And it doesn’t help you yourself learn how to figure it out and figure out a way that works for you. Because otherwise you’re just taking somebody else’s solution or somebody else’s advice and fitting it onto yourself without giving yourself the mental space to actually think about, like, well, how does this work for me? What is my flavor of this? What do I want the future of this decision to look like? You’re not going to benefit in the same way if you were just taking it all in and making your own decision.

Germaine Foley:

Absolutely. I agree 100%. Sometimes people, it seems like the easiest thing to do is just to say, do this, then this, then this. But the truth is, we as human beings, we don’t know what’s best for other human beings. Right. Even if we’re experts, even if we have certifications and expertise and experiences, everyone we can guide people, we can coach people, support them, give them perspective. But at the end of the day, it really is up to them decide how they’re going to move forward. So for my clients, sometimes they’ll think, should I pay off my debt or save first? And I’m like, well, what do you want to do? What do you think? Let’s go through the scenario. Let’s look at what’s going on in your life. Which one will make you feel the most secure? Like, if you had a certain amount of money in savings or if you had this credit card gone, which one makes you feel most secure? And then we go from there. So everybody’s way of doing things is customized at that point based on what they need and what’s important to them.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah, and I think, too, is, well, we know why people want somebody else to tell them what to do because they don’t want to make their own decision and make a mistake. But that’s a part of it, is that we’re supposed to fumble through. We’re supposed to figure things out. Somebody’s supposed to not pay off the debt and then later go, you know what? Actually, I think I would prefer to pay that off. I don’t want that anymore. I think that part can be missing. And that seems to be maybe what Charity is falling back to is I need somebody to tell me what the right decision is here so I don’t make a mistake. There’s no right decision. You’re probably going to make a mistake, and it’s okay.

Germaine Foley:

And it’s okay. And that is life right there.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah, 100%. But you feel for her because you just want her mom to say what we’ve I’ve been saying this whole season. Go with Dotun. He’s awesome.

Germaine Foley:

I’m rooting for him for sure, and I will be watching next week, so I’m rooting for him.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. Well, was there anything else on your mind before we wrap up the show today?

Germaine Foley:

No, I just want to say thank you for having this was so much fun. And I had a blast watching. My kids were like, have you been sitting in that seat the whole evening? Because I was sitting in my room and my little ottoman watching the Men Tell All and I went to the hometown. They were like, have you moved?

Lynn Grogan:

I was like, not really. You’re like, this is great.

Germaine Foley:

Yes, this was awesome.

Lynn Grogan:

Yeah. I think that’s what I love most about this was like, A, I get to meet new people through the podcast, but B, it’s just like hearing other people’s experiences of watching it where it’s just like, some people many years, some people like yourself, we are like, it’s been a minute. What is happening here? But it just was like, we don’t leave our brains at the door when we watch shows. Even if there are kind of these pleasure watching shows, we’re still coaches or you’re still yourself as you watch it. So it’s been very fun to hear what your brain picked up on. So if somebody wanted to find you, where would they go looking?

Germaine Foley:

Yeah, so we already mentioned I have a podcast. It’s Wealthy Woman’s podcast. You can find it anywhere you listen. And then I have a website, germainefoley.com, if you want to take my free e-course around. Really? Building wealth. So that e-course is all about the essentials that every successful woman needs to build wealth. So if you want that, you can grab it there. And then if you’re on Instagram, I’m at Germaine Foley coaching.

Lynn Grogan:

Yes. There we go. Thank you. I will have all the links in the show notes, so it’ll be easy. Find her there. So, Germaine, thank you again so much for coming on the show today. It’s been such a pleasure.

Germaine Foley:

Thanks for having me.