Grabbing Time with Paige Dempsey | The Bachelorette S20, E5

Paige Dempsey Life Coach

This week I invited Paige Dempsey on the Reality Show Life Coach podcast!

Paige Dempsey is a certified Life and Relationship Coach whose passion is helping women have better relationships. Paige is an expert in helping you get past what is holding you back to help you create a life – and relationships – you love on purpose!

Paige has been certified from the Life Coach School and also holds certifications in Feminist and Deep Dive Coaching, taught by leading coaches in the industry.

Paige will help you break free of old patterns that are no longer serving you and teach you new ways of creating relationships that you love. Most importantly, Paige will help you deepen your most important relationship which is the one you have with yourself.  If you want to feel less frustration and more happiness in your dating and personal relationships, Paige is the coach for you.

It’s a super fun episode and I can’t wait for you to listen!

Listen to the Full Episode:

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Full Episode Transcript:


Lynn Grogan [00:00:02]:

Alright. Welcome back to the Reality Show Life Coach podcast. Today, we’re gonna talk about season 20 episode 5 of The Bachelorette. And with me today, I have special guest, Paige Dempsey. Why don’t you introduce yourself?

Paige Dempsey [00:00:14]:

Hello, Lynn. I’m excited to be here. I am what I like to call a feminist dating and relationship coach for women. So feminist does not mean how to be a feminist. It just means we kind of take a deep dive how women are socialized to show up in our world, which is in a lot of ways. But I love talking about dating, I love talking about relationships, so this is gonna be a lot of fun. It’s gonna be a lot of fun.

Lynn Grogan [00:00:43]:

You’re the first dating coach we’ve had on this season and I just, like, can’t wait to get your take on all the things because there’s things that specific to the Bachelorette, but then there’s things about dating in general. And I was like, I know we’re gonna dig into all of it today. And I wanna get your perspective. I also have a lot of fun following you on social media. It’s like, even if I if I was dating, I was like, I would hire you because — Oh. — they’re very funny. Maybe you know about yourself, but you’re very, like, snarky and funny, which I relate to.

Paige Dempsey [00:01:09]:

And I’m direct. I’m told. I always ask my clients, like, they put 3 words to describe me as a coach. Without fail, they always say direct. So if you want if you wanna get a straight shooter, dating coach, like, Let’s talk.

Lynn Grogan [00:01:23]:

If Charity hears this today, she’ll be like, dang. I wish I would have had Paige on my side.

Paige Dempsey [00:01:30]:

This is amazing that we’re doing this, by the way, because I every time I see one of these dating shows, I’m like, they need a dating relationship coach. So ABC, if you’re listening, bring me. I can help I can help all of your people.

Lynn Grogan [00:01:45]:

All of them. And the details will be in the show notes, so you could find Paige that way. Okay. So I’m gonna do a quick show recap to remind us where we’re at, and then we’re gonna dig in. So the gang has seriously shown up in New Orleans. They’re still in the US, which is so odd for the show. Usually, there are, like, overseas at this point. But It is what it is. We have a one on one date. Charity rolls up with a horse and carriage. She grabs Joey. They have their first proper one on one date. They sort of had a a short one a couple episodes ago. They have dinner. He tells her he is falling in love her, and he gets the rose. That part was lovely. But then we go to this 2 on one date, — which I think is maybe the next day, and it’s Sean and Tanner. And, like, 2 on one dates I don’t know how much you’ve watched the Bachelor throughout the year’s Paige, but, like, 2 on one dates always mean no good. Like, I think that comes out of this. They’re both kind of in disbelief. Like, how are we on this 2 on one date? Why aren’t we on one on one dates? Well, Well, guys, it’s because Charity doesn’t really want to take you to hometowns, which is next week, and she does what I was hoping she would do this entire date, and I don’t know if you were thinking this too. I was like, don’t give out a rose. To either of them. So I was like, what I was like, neither of these guys go home with you. You do not know them, like, at all at all. So — Right. Right. Yes. So and I think you had even written in your notes, like, she bucked convention, and she didn’t give out a rose.

Paige Dempsey [00:03:14]:

Well, I love this about her because if I am a very sporadic Bachelor and Bachelorette watcher. But, you know, in the in the beginning, you had to, like, really follow the rules. And, like, if there was a rose ceremony, you’re giving out a rose at the rose ceremony, and there was a couple of times in this so that she would, like, not giving out my rose right now. I was like, good for you.

Lynn Grogan [00:03:33]:

Good for you. Yeah. I felt that too. And, I mean, honestly, like, what she told them, I felt the same way. She was like, I just don’t have what I need right now to give out this rose, so I’m not gonna do it at all. And I’ll see y’all later at another at another date, another time. So I like that she actually grabbed the time for herself — Mhmm. — because she hasn’t been given much this season. The next thing we do is we go on another we have a one on one date with Dotun, which I know we’re gonna talk about today. They go on this fun run, which is adorable. They wear tutus. They look like they have a blast. It’s so fun to watch them together.

Paige Dempsey [00:04:08]:

So fun. I I loved that part, and it did he I think one of both of them even said this feels like a real date. And I was thinking that too. I mean, it just seemed normal and natural and like something I could see people who are dating doing.

Lynn Grogan [00:04:22]:

I could definitely see people doing. What I also loved about it is usually they, like, hype the crowd behind them. But when they started to race, people around them look kind of annoyed, which I appreciate it because I’m like, that feels real too. Like, everybody’s just like, come on. Let’s do the run. Yeah. What do we have next? We have Sean, who we will also talk about today. It goes on — I know.

Lynn Grogan [00:04:48]:

Yeah. He’s all like, I have to know. Maybe he goes and knocks on Charity’s door. Spoiler alert. He feels one way and and she doesn’t feel the same. She sends him home. I thought that was the right decision. And he was meant to have been on the next group date with Aaron, Xavier and Tanner, but, of course, Sean has already been sent home. She takes the 3 of them. I can’t even remember for the life of me what they do. Do they just sit around? Do you know? I don’t remember.

Paige Dempsey [00:05:16]:

What did they do? Can’t remember.

Lynn Grogan [00:05:20]:

Did they go on a trolley?

Paige Dempsey [00:05:22]:

maybe. Was that the no. Let’s see. There was part I think they were just sitting down on that bench at that table, and then she talked talked with each of them individually.

Lynn Grogan [00:05:33]:

Yeah. Yeah. and then was basically, like, evaluating them to see if they can go to hometowns.

Lynn Grogan [00:05:37]:

And Aaron B and Xavier make the cut. Tanner does not also not a shock. I think she probably, like, had she been given the chance to send Tanner home at the same time as Sean, she would have at that point. But, you know, the show is a show. So that was the episode. Any thoughts before we jump in jump into coachable moments, Paige?

Paige Dempsey [00:06:01]:

I mean, I have so many thoughts. I can’t wait. Which ones do you watch? I think this star of the show was Sean’s inability to discern that your one way love affair is, like, not being reciprocated.

Lynn Grogan [00:06:17]:

Of course. I I was listening to I have, like, some favorite recappers of the Bachelorette shows. Love to see it. And they were they made an offhanded comment that it was almost like Sean had ordered a relationship on Amazon, and he’s like, I put my credit card in correctly. Like, I ordered 2 day delivery. Why is it my relationship here? Like, it was, like, a weird sense of entitlement that because he thought he did, in quotes, all the right things, that therefore, it should be reciprocated.

Paige Dempsey [00:06:47]:

And I have to hear what you thought about this. Yeah. I mean, I love that analogy. The title I was trying to think of the word. I was like, is it the misogyny? I’m like, not not misogyny. It’s the entitlement. the male entitlement that he’s like, but I told her how I feel, and I have feelings. And so but I have the feelings, and I told her about the feelings. And so I I mean, we’re gonna be together. I was like, hey. Like, she also gets to decide, and she may not have have those feelings for you. And I think, you know, his just entitlement and insistence that, like, if I like her, then she’s gonna like me back, is very, like, emotionally immature. And kind of overwhelming. And, you know, I’m just so proud of her for not I mean, for, you know, just deciding, like, this you’re not the person for me. But I honestly, I’m I’m I sound like I’m teasing. I find it honestly kind of unsettling that that is the mentality a lot of men might have.

Lynn Grogan [00:07:48]:

And — Do you think it’s, like, an age thing? because he is quite young. I think he’s, like, twenty five, or do you think it’s like, have you seen a lot of this in your experience in dating and also coaching people who are dating?

Paige Dempsey [00:07:58]:

Yeah. I mean, I just think it’s I think it’s kind of a little bit or just men and women. I mean, it’s I don’t know if it if it’s age or stage or gender. I don’t think it’s gender specific necessarily, but people need to understand just like you said, because I ordered you on Amazon, that doesn’t mean that the person’s going to show up and like you back. Right? Like, I’m not a toy for you to play with. I think his other problem and I you know, you always have 1 or 2 of these people each season. If you went back and ran the script of how many times he said win or I’m compete or I’m in it till he did literally say I’m gonna win her. So I’m like, okay, this is now it’s not about your affection for her. It’s about you getting the girl, and those are totally different things.

Lynn Grogan [00:08:51]:

Mhmm. Well, in his is such like short term thinking. Like, it is definitely the competition, but it’s also, like, he’s only seeing to this next rose. He wants this short term gratification, the, like, instantaneous whatever, of, like, the rose, but he’s not thinking big picture at all. He’s all like, I like you. You like, you should like me therefore, and I should get this next rose without thinking about, like, Oh, but the rose means that, like, she wants to keep me and leads towards marriage. It’s like, It’s like that part. I don’t even know if I ever really heard him say anything along the lines of long term relationship or marriage. It was all, like, When’s the next rose? Do I win this competition? Do I get the immediate validation? And then maybe he mentioned something about, like, oh, maybe then she’ll meet my family, but it was never like I actually see a life with you. So it’s all, like, very short term, I wanna win.

Paige Dempsey [00:09:46]:

Yeah. He did mention, like, when you meet my family and you’re gonna feel the love that I felt from my family, but again I think it was I was so he must just be very confused because he kept saying when she’ll see what we have and I’m I don’t think you have what you think you have. Like — Yeah. — you would be going on a one to one day and, like, you know, I just It’s just a lot of information. You know? It’s a lot it’s it’s you know, from a coaching perspective, this is really interesting too. From a coaching When we talk about relationships, people always talk about relationships like, Hey, Lynn, you and I have a relationship. Like, it’s something that exists in between us a bubble or it’s a ball, and we can, like, pass it back and forth. But it’s like a relationship that you have with somebody is only the relationship that you have in your mind. And the one that he had in his mind towards her was a lot different than the one that she had in her mind was him. .

Lynn Grogan [00:10:43]:

Why do you think that he didn’t have the awareness to question things? Because he’s obviously watched the show before he knows how things go down. Like, Where do you think that his he was so sure of their relationship, but he hadn’t gotten, like, a one on one date. He hadn’t been given, like, group date, roses. He’s got he got the 1, like, from the Barbie date, but I’m pretty sure it’s just because he looked like a Kendall, and the producers are like, you should take him over Dotun because otherwise, it’s your way too obvious. But He’s so he hasn’t been getting validation along the way. So where do you think his sense of certainty comes from in this relationship?

Paige Dempsey [00:11:17]:

I mean, can I say, like, the patriarchy? Yes. You can. Yeah. Hi. I am a I’m a good looking white male, and everybody will love me. and seen. You know? And then I think too, like, awareness, there’s I think the thing that a lot of listen. I’m not a man basher. I’m just calling it as I see it. But awareness and emotional maturity is something that I don’t think men have done as good a job practicing or having or growing or learning. You know? So I just don’t think he and he had he had the eye on the prize, and god bless him. Like, I’m gonna be at that final thing, and we’re going to hometowns. But, like, you’re not reading the room. You’re not you know, he really it seems like just I haven’t watched all episodes, and he just seemed like he was in a one way relationship with her.

Lynn Grogan [00:12:21]:

Yeah. very, very much so. I mean, what would you hope that, like, in him watching this back that he picked up on and learned from?

Paige Dempsey [00:12:32]:

I mean that’s a good question. I would be shocked if somebody like you watched it back and had some self awareness and learning because he doesn’t you know, I mean, just it would be great if you just had the awareness like, Oh, I see now that she had better connections with other people. Oh, I see that we didn’t have the relationship that I thought we had. But sometimes it seems like, you know, there’s 2 kinds of people. Like, those of us that have some self awareness and some internal, like, ability to, like, review and, like, emotional maturity. Another ones were like, I just don’t know. I just don’t know. I should I mean, look. You know? So Sean, if you’ve if you’ve done some deep work, I’d be curious to hear what you noticed, but I don’t know. He just seems very unaware.

Lynn Grogan [00:13:23]:

Yeah. I think there’s gonna be some sort of, you know, the confirmation bias as he watches back and be like, see? There. There. There. She show she showed interest. She was lying to me or something. Like — Yes. Yes. And you didn’t see on camera, there was this other this other thing that she looked at me this one time, this one way, and it’s like, okay. Well, that’s not. You know? Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day, it was charity’s choice to say no just like it was his choice to say yes, and he seemed very confused about that mismatch. But like, again, not reading the room. And one thing I did think that he was maybe doing along the way was like, noticing that he had emotions at all because he was like, I don’t know that he was actually feeling them or processing them. doubt it, but he was noticing that he had them. So maybe if there was any inkling of awareness, and I’ll be generous here, like, maybe it’s that — Yeah. — emotions are are a present in his human body? Yes. It’ll be curious. We’ll have to chat offline after the after the fun rows to kind of like see how we showed up. in that space. You know? Yeah. because that is a space when they when they have, like, the mental all, final rose, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. We’re yeah. Yeah. Where they may mention something, you know, like, in watching that bag. I can see how’s the total dickhead or I could see this event. And — Yeah.

Paige Dempsey [00:14:39]:

usually very rare. Usually, they just wanna, like, yell at the other people. But — Yeah. Yeah. And I can’t believe she picked so and so. Or, you know, it’s always like a it’s always a comparison and 2. Like, if she likes that and then not me, I just I can’t even see it. And it’s like, well, you would actually do yourself a a favor to, like, kind of be introspective and think, like, oh, could I see that? I mean let me be curious instead of just being so defensive or so puffed up about your own worth I just think this is like a a fault in kind of this the the franchise a little bit is that every show, every time every season. There’s 20 or 25 single people. And one by one as they get let go, they’re always like, I don’t know what wrong with me. I don’t know why they didn’t pick me. And it’s like, because people are allowed to have preferences. You know? When I go to Baskin Robbins and there’s 31 flavors of ice cream, like, 29 of them are crying if I didn’t pick them. Right? Like, I just, like, have what I like, and I’m gonna order my two favorites or my one or my, you know, special dish that I like. And so it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. It just means, like, you’re not a good fit for that person.

Lynn Grogan [00:15:50]:

Right. And I think if any of them have watched the bachelor, they’ve probably watched bachelor in paradise to show that, like, oh, these people that thought they were so unworthy are now, like, making out an in relation with all these other people. Like like, oh, okay. But, yeah, I have noticed that trend. I’ve noticed it more on the bachelor to be honest, like — Yes. Yes. When they leave — Yes.

Paige Dempsey [00:16:12]:

When they leave — Yes. — versus bachelorette. that it’s more of a worthiness thing when it comes to the bachelor, which is

Paige Dempsey [00:16:19]:

I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that’s a coachable moment. I know you usually do those at the end, but the coachable moment is we do not worse our self worth to other people choosing us, especially to other people choosing us after 4 or 5 weeks when we spent a total of, you know, 10, 20, 30 hours together on a reality TV show. Like, that is not where we need to get our self worth measure from.

Lynn Grogan [00:16:43]:

Correct. I agree with this a 100%. Yes. I don’t know that Sean went to that conclusion that he is not worthy. I think he left very confused.

Paige Dempsey [00:16:51]:

Right. Right.

Lynn Grogan [00:16:53]:

Well, I mean, on the flip side, we have them, you know, another wonderful moment from this episode was, and I know you had a lot of really comments about him. So just tell me what is your impression of watching the 2 of them together.

Paige Dempsey [00:17:05]:

Okay. I loved the 2 of them together. I just I loved everything about it. It just seemed really real, and it seemed really authentic. So the fun run was fun. It was cute. You went along. You wore the tutu. Eventhe little clips where they were, like, interacting with people. I think they’re reading super just, like, I think you can learn a lot about a person too about they interact with you know, the waiter or the wait staff, the hotel court, the whatever. And then there are dinner. He just seemed really emotionally, again, open and vulnerable, and they were both kind of tearing up, like talking about how they felt about each other. So The add to me is the sign of a emotionally mature man who is okay to like share about his feelings and share about his fears. I think he was the one that said, I have a real fear of failure. So he was a talking about it in a sense of, like, getting her or winning her, but, like, I just had these experiences where I put myself out there, and sometimes it doesn’t work out for me. That’s another thing that I think is really interesting and talk about dating and relationships. It’s like if somebody if I was dating somebody or met somebody on the fine. And I say, tell me about your ex wife or tell me about your last relationship. I don’t wanna know the nitty gritty of, like, how it was terrible I just wanna know, like, what you’ve learned from that and how you’ve grown from it. And so I thought done doing this was, like, really telling of him saying, I don’t know what experiences he was talking about exactly, but he was saying, I have had you know, I’ve tried, I’ve, like, put myself out there in the past, and it does, like, fall and I’ve fallen on my I make a little nervous about her. So good. And then her response was, she’s like, I just got like a whole shock through my body. Like,

Lynn Grogan [00:18:47]:

so that was really cute. It was so cute. And, like, they had similar experience last week because he had a one on one last week where he was just so open and genuine with her. Like, you genuinely think that he I’m on the show because he was like, here is this beautiful woman I’ve been presented with this opportunity, and while I am the luckiest man on the planet to have the chance just to be you know, hear and have like, Anne get to date her versus somebody who maybe wants Instagram followers or they have some other hidden agenda there. Like, you get the sense that his agenda is to see if this has actually a good match for him. Mhmm. And just the level of vulnerable ability from him. Both of them, when they’re together, is just so touching. There’s actual substance to the relationship. I mean, you see her have moments with Joey but it’s a lot about them just going, oh my gosh. I can’t believe that we like each other. Oh my gosh. Our energy is amazing and, like — Yeah. I mean — You’re like you’re like, okay. That’s fun. But what do you have after that? And you really get a sense that that charity and dot and can’t wait to learn more about each other and can’t wait to be in each there’s lives and see what they like, you know, like, wake up and have breakfast together and, like like, you know, live their lives together and check-in at the end of the day. Like, you get a sense that they’re like, yay. Yeah. Yeah. This show, but I can’t wait for what’s next.

Paige Dempsey [00:20:08]:

And — Yeah. You almost I was thinking, like, you almost wanna pick person that, like, doesn’t wanna be on the show. Like, you’re not on it for you’re you’re interested in spite of the show.

Lynn Grogan [00:20:17]:

Right. Like like, it just happened that we met this way. But we could have met in any way. And, like, if he would have, you know, been out at a party and saw her, you just know that he’s drawn to her, and he would go up to her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I just I’ve I don’t know. Like, he didn’t stand out to me until maybe, like, the second episode, and he just every time he’s with her, he’s just share something that’s so meaningful. And — Mhmm. — maybe the only person who isn’t just like, wow. You’re hot, Charity. He’s you know, he’s saying things like, I love learning from you. I — Yeah. Yeah. And he’s like, he bring this out and me. And — Mhmm. Yeah. He just seems very He seems very sincere and very genuine.

Lynn Grogan [00:20:59]:

Yeah. Yeah. When you have a client who seems to have this type of match, like, how do you approach things like this? because Obviously, the show wants them to move very quickly. And in real life, I think this type of match, people can tend to move really quickly. And I know before we started the show, you were like, maybe 5 weeks is a little quick to jump to marriage. So I guess what are your thoughts on, you know, on the speed and how when you have a really good connection, how to approach things?

Paige Dempsey [00:21:28]:

So I posted about this recently, and I’ve said this for years and the more I coach and the more I see women online and the more I see people talking about dating, the more I’m gonna like double down. on my idea that I don’t think you should even begin to tell me that you’re crazy about somebody until you’ve been dating for at least 90 days. Like, because there’s too much I just have a 100,000,000 examples of here, like, oh my god, This guy’s amazing. It’s been, like, 3 weeks. I’ve been, like, Give it 3 months. I mean and then to be even serious, like, a year. Like, 4 seasons, a wedding at a funeral, ups and downs, a fight with your parents. I mean, like, you gotta go through some life. You know? And then I see a lot of women get really attached to men really quickly. And then by the 3 month mark, it’s fizzly or that the real person is coming out, and it doesn’t seem like It’s not quite what they thought it wasn’t. Well, of course, because you you’re trying to start. Here’s the thing. I’ve I’ve say sometimes, like, don’t start at the top of the mountain. don’t start with like this person’s amazing. Do you remember like for the older generation that you’d like on the the prices right where the little climber that I go up to do to do anything like that. No amount when the pricing went up. Younger people even look it up online. It was, like, all the don’t know what it was. It was a game. But I just think a lot of women are like, oh my god. This guy’s amazing. And then you get to know him, and you’re kind of, tumbling down the hill, instead of like let’s start at level 1, do I like spending 2 hours? And like let’s get to know each other and go slowly up the hill. So I don’t know. I I probably got, like, a little off. Topic from my question, but, like, I just think the fast, it’s easy to love somebody quickly. And especially on a reality TV show, I think I put this in, like, our notes when we were going back and forth. Like, we don’t you haven’t seen the bad part yet. Like, you haven’t seen the consistency yet. You haven’t seen the, like, how do they interact with their kids or their ex wife part yet? You haven’t seen do they show up and say they’re gonna do with you know, do what they say they’re gonna do over a period of time? Like, it’s all funny games. Like, I’m on, but, like, that doesn’t have a hell of anything.

Lynn Grogan [00:23:37]:

No. It doesn’t. And then shouldn’t I mean, it doesn’t surprise me when you hear that things fizzle out very quickly after the show ends because the flashiness of it is gone, and now you’re suddenly just left with each other, and you have no idea who that other person is. I don’t care if you’ve had these moments on the show, but you don’t know who they are. You’re still in hiding, so you still don’t know who they are until after it’s revealed — Yeah. — after the final rose. But How do you build a life around that? I feel like the people who have stayed together are just kinda lucky. Like, they just just have worked at it, or they gave them self time or something. Like, you’d never hear about that part. Like, how do the people make it the best? But, really, I mean, they’re essentially saying yes to a stranger.

Paige Dempsey [00:24:21]:

Yeah. I mean, and I feel like this is another sort of problem with the show overall. And a lot of the dating shows, I see this. What’s the other one? Love is blind. I watched, you know, some seasons of that. And I don’t know why. I mean, I know it makes for a good TV. Like, we have to get a proposal in weeks or 10 weeks or 12 weeks, but it’s like, what if we just agreed to, like, date each other? Like, what if you just pick the person after 12 weeks that you said, like, I wanna date you with the possibility of a future because putting this proposal idea on it makes it so big and so overwhelming. And so, like, this has to be the person who’s been in the rest of my life with. but I think that

Lynn Grogan [00:24:55]:

you miss the point of like getting to know them as a human and as a friend and are they funny, are they sweet, are they kind, and not just are they gonna be my everything after 12 weeks? Yes. Yeah. And I think that’s where we saw kind of some of charity’s hesitation with Tanner is she was probably, like, Yeah. You’re a perfectly okay ish guy. And in the real world, maybe we would have gone on 4 more dates to see if we were compatible or not. But because of the scope of the show, I have to send you home because it would be real awkward to show up and meet grandma next week and go, yeah. We’ve never actually spent one on one time together. Like, that’s weird.

Paige Dempsey [00:25:29]:

That is weird. You know, I think this brings up a moment when so getting to the next part when she was with Xavier and he was being very honest about I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m ready to, like, spend my life with somebody. Again, kudos because I thought that was so — Yeah. — honest and forthcoming of him, and I think he’s only, like, 25, 26. Maybe. But you if you go back and watch, you could see her face just kinda, like, shut down a little because she’s like, wait. I need a proposal. So, again, it’s like so shortsighted. She’s looking I mean, the men are sort of competing to get the girl, but she’s also looking for not only who would be a good match for me but who’s gonna propose to me. And if he is showing signs of saying, I could like you, I just don’t know yet because it’s been 87 seconds since we’ve known each other. it was amazing, but you could just tell her face just, like, changed a bit. She just, like, looked away and kinda got a little different look on her face, but she’s, oh, wait. He might not be the proposing kind of guy. I think it’s, like, kind of shortsighted, but we’ll see what happens with those 2.

Lynn Grogan [00:26:38]:

Yeah. think I had put in the notes that I was, like, red flaggy question mark because it was him telling the truth, but to her, it was a red flag. And you could see it all over her face, face, like, This is a red flag to what I’m contractually ab obligated to as the bachelorette.

Paige Dempsey [00:26:54]:

But maybe — I mean, I didn’t think it was a red flag. Yeah. red flag to her, but I don’t think it was a red flag at all because, like, he might be the kind of guy that gets settled down when he’s 35. And, like, there’s nothing wrong with that. you know, 26 is not that old for a man to be getting engaged when their prefrontal cortex of their brain, like, barely just got finished breaking, you know, operational. So, like, I just I think I always think in a relationship,

Lynn Grogan [00:27:22]:


Paige Dempsey [00:27:23]:

I think honesty is a green flag because honesty gives us information. to act on. So if I’m in and I always tell them this, like, if you’re dating somebody for 3 months, 6 months, 3 weeks, 3 years, you know, women allow I feel unsure. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know I feel I don’t know what the future of this. I’m like, Alice. Alice. And then you have information. And then you can decide, I think once you get the response, what you wanna do with that impoundation. And so if I’m dating somebody for 3 months even, and I do you ever, like, married? Do you ever wanna have kids? Do you ever wanna you know, and then they give you an answer, then you, like, have more data. And it doesn’t have to be something we take personally, it doesn’t mean they don’t like us, it doesn’t mean they couldn’t love us, But if you really wanna have kids and the guy that you’ve been dating for 3 months, a 100% in no way got a vasectomy, don’t wanna have kids. Like, then you’ve got some data, and you can make a decision. And so same thing with this Xavier guy. Like, they I I don’t know. I mean, they could maybe be a a fit launch I mean, I think she has other people that she could be a better fit with. But him just saying, like, I don’t know if I’m at a place to get married is amazing.

Lynn Grogan [00:28:37]:

100%. Yeah. A plus. Yeah. You could tell it, though. She was not.

Paige Dempsey [00:28:43]:

I was like, I wanna get a I wanna get a partner.

Lynn Grogan [00:28:46]:

But But here’s the thing. It’s like, what charity were we getting at that moment? I think we were getting the one who was, like, evaluating for hometowns in a proposal. when I actually think she secretly agrees with him. This is a really fast amount of time to get married, and I think a lot of her actions, this episode really spoke to that where she wouldn’t make a decision. Even for guys like Sean and Tanner, it was pretty clear. Like, this you know, even if even if they had been this amount of time dating in the real world, she probably at this point would have been like, yeah. You can carry on. Like, you just don’t see — Yeah. Yeah. — the compatibility there. That’s a good point. Yeah.

Paige Dempsey [00:29:19]:


Lynn Grogan [00:29:21]:

But because she said a couple times, like, when I was in your shoes, when I was on the bachelor — Yes. — I had a lot of the same thoughts and feelings. And so it’s like this conflict, though, of it’s almost like her sense of duty to be the bachelorette and to do a perfect job, and I totally get that. But — Yeah. — it’s you can tell she’s clouded with that because she does want people, to be honest, and she appreciates it. it’s like she couldn’t hear it in that moment because she was so shut down by this idea that, like, okay. Wait. You might reject me just because

Paige Dempsey [00:29:53]:

Our whole obligation here is to a proposal, and you may not be able to do that. Yes. And we have to remember that we’re working within the confines of, like, TV show and production, but I also noticed and I can’t remember if it was I think it was like I don’t know if it was later that day or something conversation, but then yeah. It was late when she went back to see him. And so they let Tanner go, so I’m giving you the rose. And then so it was, like, later that night. Again, you know, so much time between when they actually saw each other, but then he sort of did a 180. And I was like, yes. And I could see myself with you. I was like, oh, that’s interesting. very — I mean, it’s been, like, 12 hours, but okay. Like, you know, so it’s I don’t know. We got its TV. Right? And — Yeah. Who knows?

Lynn Grogan [00:30:37]:

I yeah. It’s maybe he had some producers in his ear at that point where a coach would have been more helpful. to, like, parse things out. But it it sounded almost like, to your point, like, maybe he was parodying back what somebody else said, Could you see yourself with charity? Even if you can’t see yourself getting married at the end of the school, could you see yourself with her? because they’re like, oh, shoot. We might only have 3 guys going to hometowns on that. Is that okay? Oh, shit. We’re going out that extend the, you know, the taping time. It’s like, it’s supposed to be 4 to hometowns and then 3 for the 1 on Fantasy suite. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, they’re they’re rushing this season along too, which does nobody any — Oh, did they shorten it? I was wondering why it seemed oh, okay. Yeah. You and I should not be talking about people going into hometowns. We should be talking about, like, Yeah. She went from twelve people to 10.

Paige Dempsey [00:31:28]:

Yes. Okay. Why did they do that?

Lynn Grogan [00:31:31]:

I have no clue.

Paige Dempsey [00:31:33]:

Oh, okay. That makes okay. Yeah. It’s way too fast. Way too fast. I was thinking, though, as she was, like, not getting people remotely would they do if she just said, like, forget all of you. I’m gonna go with with this guy. That happened with — Well, it’s still there. Oh, they did. I didn’t I might have been busy, but — It was during the pandemic, but, yeah, that didn’t happen. And they had to bring in a a substitute bachelorette. It was — Oh. Oh, I didn’t see, though. I No.

Lynn Grogan [00:31:58]:

It’s just folklore here at this point. But, I mean, you still do have choice. I just think it’s costly if she wouldn’t walk out point, it’d be like, well, you didn’t do your contracted I’d be obligated, like, 12 episodes. So — Interesting. Luckily, she does seem to like a few of them. I don’t see. I was like — Yeah. — if it’s not daunting at the end, I like, my whole, like, dating radar HR is off these days because — I would be surprised. You know, Joey’s fine. But, like,

Paige Dempsey [00:32:26]:

if Donald wasn’t there, and he’d be, like, Maybe he’s the front runner because they do have to it just seems nice. Yeah. But that seems more like a deeper connection.

Lynn Grogan [00:32:36]:

Yeah. I’ve been surprised in the past, though. It’s just they go with the, like,

Paige Dempsey [00:32:41]:

lust the lust connection versus the — Yeah. Well, they wanna go with the sure thing. Right? because they wanna get a proposal. They don’t work standing along with the proposal space with the roses in the in the — Oh, which may happen. — or whatever.

Lynn Grogan [00:32:53]:

Yeah. Which may happen. Well, I know that you have some thoughts about things in general, and I don’t know if we’ve touched upon them at this point. But I would love to hear any, like, other thoughts that you had about just dating as it relates to the show or or whatever?

Paige Dempsey [00:33:09]:

Yeah. I was so I had a couple other ideas on that. One of them was this whole she sets couple many times, and I think most batch order and batch records do this. I don’t wanna make the wrong decision. I’m afraid I’m gonna make the wrong decision. And so I just wanna tell everybody out there, there’s like no right or wrong decision, there’s just decisions. And you know as a coach also, like, Typically the way we know if we made a right or wrong decision is like, well, what was the outcome? Like, well, if 6 months from now we broke up, then she would be, you know, how tendency to think, oh, I made the wrong decision, I should have picked somebody else. That doesn’t mean it was the wrong decision. It was like the best decision you could have made for yourself at that time, and there’s no there’s no measuring stick. There’s just life. Right? And so I think we should as we date and as we’re in relationships and as we just make decisions on our life, we should let go of this concept of like the right decision and wrong decision. You don’t have to be afraid of that. You always are making the best decision you can with the information that you have time. And if you get new information down the road, you might have to make a different decision. Break up, marriage, divorce, kids, no kids, like, whatever. So I think that’s important.

Lynn Grogan [00:34:20]:

I think that’s important too. And I just had one thought while you were talking there too, is Sometimes we’ll make a decision and we’ll have, like, a really negative emotion afterwards, and it’ll be like, oh, okay. because I feel this way, it must mean I made the wrong decision. But it could just be that you’re just like, okay. You made a decision, and then you just for whatever like, you just feel a certain way, but it doesn’t mean you made the wrong decision. It just means that you’re a feeling human, and maybe you’re feeling sad or disappointed it didn’t work out or fill in the blank. But I think we take that sometimes to mean like, oh, I must have made a wrong decision because if I made the right one, I would feel joyful and elated or light or relieved or something like that. And I think we do ourself a disservice to only use that as a metric. of whether or not we did the right or wrong thing. 100%,

Paige Dempsey [00:35:07]:

and I was also thinking as you were talking that sometimes that discomfort could be a sign of growth. You know? Because if you’ve been making the same decisions all the way, you’re like, oh, it’s fun. It was easy. That you’re not getting what you want. Sometimes making that uncomfortable decision. so we grow through that discomfort. So I think that’s something you can definitely work on with a coach or a therapist is like, why does this feel uncomfortable? Like, what does this offering mean? Because those decisions, feelings in our bodies are just trying to get your attention. You know? And I don’t I agree with you. I don’t think a uncomfortable feeling. I won’t call it a bad feeling. I won’t call it uncomfortable feeling means bad decision. Necessarily.

Lynn Grogan [00:35:47]:

And it could just be, like, what you were saying is you’ve made a decision that you’ve never really made before. It’s headed in the right direction or the direction that you wanna be going in in life.

Paige Dempsey [00:35:56]:

That can feel uncomfortable too because you’re doing something that’s, like, new for you. It’s out of character how you used to do it. Yes. Yes. And this feels foreign to a lot of us because we’re like, oh, man. I always used to go for the bat the bad boy in court or something. — used to being miss treated, and I mean treated well, and even that can feel uncomfortable. Yeah. You know? So even this 1st 6 weeks or 6 months of, like, something really good. Like a lot of times people need therapy or coaching for that because they’re not used to it.

Lynn Grogan [00:36:24]:

You know? Yeah. I mean, for somebody like charity picking someone like Don who is a kind, emotionally intelligent, thoughtful man who like, wants good things for her. She talks a lot about her ex boyfriend of 6 years being the special. Like, this might feel weird for her to pick somebody who’s like, where she could be in a healthy relationship, and she might misread that as, like, oh, this must be the wrong thing. When, really, it’s like, oh, maybe there’s more healing to do here because This feels just different than me. I’ve never been loved like this before.

Paige Dempsey [00:36:55]:

Yes. Yes. So I have 2 other little things — Yes. — takeaways that I would share The first one is, like, a little bit obvious, but I’ll share it anyway, which is, you know, on these dates, they’re always doing fun things and exotic locations or maybe not exotic, new locations, and they’re having really fun activities in their preplanned. I’m like, you need to see somebody down in the dirt and in the mud, and not like, I want them to go, like, let’s put you, you know, in a house, in overnight, and the toilet overflows. I’m like, let’s see how you handle that. Like, Yeah. So, again, I would just say as you’re dating people and getting to know people, like, I need to see you at your worst, and you need to see me at my worst. I’m like, let’s let’s see how that goes, not just this shiny, happy, well quave, well produced, everybody’s looking Right? Like, you come over my house on Monday night. Like, I’m in my mom’s clothes, and I’m a hundred degrees outside, and I’m sweating, and I’m on the yard. And, like, still, you want truth in advertising. Like, you still want me now who said, hey. This is, like, what I look like on a Monday night when I’m mowing and skipping. So — Yeah. And I’m hungry. I’m angry. Yeah. And then You know, the others came to mind, and I think when they need to hear this, every single guy on there, on the shows, and, like, I can see my life with her, and everybody and it’s meant to be, you know, like, all the men thinks she’s an amazing woman. And then, of course, on the back look or all women think he’s an amazing guy. But I think women have attended some women, a lot of women are just like naturally, gregarious, and fun to be with and easy to go along with. And so ten out of ten people are like, yeah, she’s amazing. And women, I’m not saying she was doing this necessarily charity, but like a lot of women tend to become what the man partner like is looking for. Like you like golfing, I love golfing. You like sports? I’d love to watch sports with you. Are you into Game of Thrones? Like let’s watch Game of Thrones. And so when they become a little bit chameleons, I think, especially, like, outgoing women that are like, oh, I can go to this. I can wear a baseball hat, a baseball game, and I can dress up for the black tie dinner. And that’s like, it’s amazing, and it’s something that we think it’s a good thing, and I’m not saying it’s not a good thing, but I want women to be careful that you still are yourself and not just fit ever got like, this guy’s 40, and this guy’s smart, and this guy’s nerdy, and this guy is like, you know what I’m do you know what I’m saying? Like, I I face some women just tend to get I guess I’m saying 2 things. The one is that a lot of women could be loved by a lot of men. And you need to take it up on yourself to find the guy that’s a good fit for you. That was sort of part 1. But the part 2 of that, the shadow side of that is that I think women sometimes mirror or become the thing that they think the guy wants them to be or like take on his in or take on his likes or take on his music or go to his concert. So it’s like, you also have to have your own self likes dislikes personality to like call in the right person to you. So you know you could date 10 guys, but like you wanna find the one that fits you who you are. You’re uniquely, you know, a fit for you.

Lynn Grogan [00:40:16]:

Yeah. because they’re they’re they’re they’re dating people to date somebody different than them, not a mirror of themselves. It’s just like, oh, like, if we wanted that, we would just go find friends.

Paige Dempsey [00:40:25]:

And so — Yeah. I mean, I’ve just been on a lot of I can talk to anybody. Right? So — Yeah. — I could go on 10 dates, and 10 guys would be like, oh my god. That was an amazing data. It’s so much fun. Okay? But that doesn’t that doesn’t mean my experience was fun. Right. That’s what I mean. I thought you were a bit different for me. Yes, Sean. You know? Like, Oh, you talked about yourself the whole time, and I just sat there, like, you know, quite like so that’s what I’m saying. It’s, like, 10 guys was, like, pleasing, but I’m being not, like, 10 guys back. I think women really need to pay attention to that just because somebody thinks you’re a fit for them doesn’t mean that they’re a good fit for you. Yes. Yeah. I used to ask myself this question when I was dating. It’s just like,

Lynn Grogan [00:41:05]:

Did I have a good time, and do I wanna see them again? And it was like, did I have a good time? Was really me asking myself, like, did I enjoy the me. It’s not a debate like me. Yes. Yes. And, like, you know and sometimes I would say yes to that. But then when I would be like, do I wanna see them again? oftentimes, it was no. It was like, that was a good one and done. But it was, like, very it was in a nice simple way for me to check-in on my experience versus what I used to do, which is very worried about. Do they like me? Am I enough for them? Am I worthy of this? That kind of thing? And I used to you know, which When you start scanning further that, then you, like, maybe, you know, keep going out with somebody that’s not a good fit for you long term because

Paige Dempsey [00:41:46]:

you’re trying to be liked in that way. Yes. Yes. And I hear so many women. I mean, again, just friends, coaching, Facebook groups. Oh my god. I had an amazing birth date that I could marry him. And I’m like, Mary, look. What? You know, my my standard is that I have a good time, that I have a good time. Do I wanna see him again. One more time. It doesn’t, we don’t need to worry about a year from now. We don’t need to worry about 5 years from now. Just like do I wanna go one more time? And then after that one, do I wanna go one more time? Yeah. After that one, do I wanna go more time? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’ll be interesting to see the next couple weeks

Lynn Grogan [00:42:22]:

for charity and what happens after that? Because it has I think it has been going fast. And — Mhmm. — she hasn’t gotten much information.

Paige Dempsey [00:42:33]:

So — Is her family gonna meet will her family meet the people? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It’s like they’ll have hometowns next week, then they’ll have Fantasy suites. — at the boys’ homestones.

Lynn Grogan [00:42:45]:

Oh, and then Fantasy Suites. Oh, and then she — And then they’ll make a pair. Like, the final 2. I know. Yeah. It’s if if they follow formula. They haven’t been so far this season. They’ve moved everything faster. Some things have happened differently. So we’ll see. You know? It’s it’s weird because it’s, like, this bucks conventional dating doing this on the show, but they have their own conventions. And so people seem to, like, hold to those dearly. I don’t know. Whatever. Some sense of control because everything otherwise is just kinda weird and out of control for this year.

Paige Dempsey [00:43:15]:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, at the very least, I hope she’s, like, enjoying her experience, and I think it’s a good time and a good way to, like, meet new people and see what you like and have fun. But I also hope that she doesn’t feel broken hearted if she doesn’t leave with a potential husband. Right. You know? Which they’re teasing. They have a potential long term boyfriend. We’ll see. Yeah. Oh oh, yeah.

Lynn Grogan [00:43:38]:

Or no one at all because you’ve also decided that that is the next right move for you based on missing people.

Paige Dempsey [00:43:45]:

Yes. Yes. Totally.

Lynn Grogan [00:43:48]:

Well, on that note Paige, it feels like maybe we’re coming to a natural conclusion. Did you have any other final thoughts before we wrap up the show?

Paige Dempsey [00:43:56]:

I thought I had another thought, but it left me. So I know I just range with this. I haven’t I like I said, I watched this franchise kinda sporadically. Depends on if kids are up or down or what I’m flipping through on TV, but it was fun to watch it from a dating coach perspective and sort of notice things that I maybe would not notice before I was doing this kind of work. So — Well, I love getting your perspective on this. I’m like, I feel like we could talk another 2 hours. There’s so much meat here in this show, but If somebody wanted to find you online, where would they go looking? I’m Paige Dempsey Coaching or paige.dempsey.coaching on all the social platforms. So I’ve been doing a lot of stuff TikTok. I’m on Instagram, Facebook, and then you can go to my website at And if anybody has questions about relationship or dating coaching, my first call is always free. So if you wanna sign up and just kinda do what I call a relationship revamp and kinda chat about where you’re at and where you’d like to be going or where you might be feeling stuck, you can sign up for that on my website.

Lynn Grogan [00:44:58]:

And like I mentioned at the top of the show, Paige is highly entertaining on all the places So and you can learn a lot from her. So I’ve learned a lot, and I’m not even dating. So, you know — Amazing. Thank you. Yeah. So thank you, Paige, for coming on. Alright, Bye!

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Lynn Grogan host of the Reality Show Life Coach podcast

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Hi! I’m Lynn Grogan. It’s my passion as a life coach to help you escape the status quo and live a fulfilling life on your own terms!

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