Bye Bye Brayden with Melanie Childers | The Bachelorette S20, E4

Lynn Grogan [00:00:02]:

All right. Welcome to the Reality Show Life Coach podcast. Today we’re going to talk about season 20, episode four of The Bachelorette. And with me today, I have special guest Melanie Childers. Melanie, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Melanie Childers [00:00:16]:

Yeah, hi. I am a business coach for feminist and progressive entrepreneurs who are growing and scaling their businesses. And I love of reality TV in most iterations.

Lynn Grogan [00:00:30]:

Amazing. And you have your own podcast?

Melanie Childers [00:00:33]:

I do. I am the host of the Bad Bitch Entrepreneur Podcast.

Lynn Grogan [00:00:39]:

Yes. And it’s been fun for me to start listening to that as I was, like, trying to get to know you since we’re new friends. We’re new friends. And I have to say it’s been so fun because we are also now Facebook friends. And every time you post, I like, sit up a little bit straighter in my chair and think a little bit bigger. So if you’re looking for that in your life, dear listener, become friends with Melanie on Facebook. Because there have been a few times where I’m just like, OOH, that scared a little part of me. And now I must go investigate. So thank you for being in my world now, Melanie.

Melanie Childers [00:01:12]:

Oh, I’m so glad that’s what I’m here for. Help you feel a little yes. Feel a little taller and dream a little. You know, us five two girls, we got to have our big up dreams. I’ve been told I have tall girl energy, so I’m like, okay, let’s do that.

Lynn Grogan [00:01:27]:

I hope to get I would have.

Melanie Childers [00:01:28]:

All the short girls, five girl energy.

Lynn Grogan [00:01:32]:

Yes. All right, so we’ll just do a quick recap of what happened here, and then we’re going to dish. We’re going to get into it. This was a good episode. Somehow the gang is magically up in Stevenson, Washington. I was like, this is random but wonderful. Everybody’s got their big jackets on. Charity goes on this one on one date with Dotton. And this is always the date where I have my hands over my eyes the entire time because I have such a fear of height. And they go and they jump off a bridge. I would be totally like Charity and weeping, like, fetal in the corner. I don’t know about you 100%.

Melanie Childers [00:02:10]:

That is not a thing I can do. I’m terrified no.

Lynn Grogan [00:02:14]:

Of heights.

Melanie Childers [00:02:15]:

Like that. Like, I want to I have a dream, but it’s like, this is a bad idea. We’re going to die for sure.

Lynn Grogan [00:02:21]:

That for sure.

Lynn Grogan [00:02:22]:

I would be having a panic attack in the corner. They have a lovely date. They actually jumped twice, which I was impressed by. And then they have, like, a nice little campfire time where I’m pretty sure it was Doten’s first time having s’mores, which was like, I love you so much. Okay, so then we have this very entertaining group date where we have some very sassy, sassy girl Scouts where they go foraging in the woods. It was a ridiculous date. And all of the producers, of course, are hiding edible things into the forest, like mushrooms and pine nuts and beets, which was completely random. Raisins. Yes, of course. Because those don’t look like raisins at all. I was thinking that too. I was just like, that’s not edible. Please do not eat that.

Melanie Childers [00:03:11]:

I would not pick that up.

Lynn Grogan [00:03:13]:

There is some drama at the cocktail hour with Brayden, which we’ll for sure be talking about. Brayden gets sent home finally, and Joey gets the rose on this date. Fast forward. We have our last one on one date of the episode with Xavier. They go romping around, which I think was Hood River, Oregon, based on some of the signage in town. There was some awkward, like, stomping of pears, which I thought was actually kind of gross.

Melanie Childers [00:03:43]:

I know I was not put my feet in that. No.

Lynn Grogan [00:03:48]:

Every time they do it on any reality show, I’m like, okay, disgusting. Nobody’s drinking that. And he also gets the rose. We have this final rose ceremony where Brayden comes back to have some final words, which leaves everybody calling him a jackass. He sends off, and of course we’ll talk about Brayden later. And then she sends home three more guys. She’s moving at a rapid clip, and we only have six left, which is very wild. Very fast. Very wild. Any thoughts before we jump into coachable moments?

Melanie Childers [00:04:21]:

Oh, man, so many thoughts. One, the type of shows that I normally watch are like Netflix, so I’m not used to primetime reality shows. So what kind of surprises me about the Bachelorette? I’ve watched the first season of the bachelor and the first season of the Bachelorette, and that was like 20 years ago, y’all, that was a long time. Was it 20? I don’t know. They say 20 seasons, but is that actually like 20 years? But it’s been a minute since I’ve watched network TV reality shows, and I feel like there’s so much performing for the camera and so much performing for the bachelorette that I’m just like, are they really getting an opportunity? To actually get to know each other and the whole, like, we have a relationship. We have a relationship, but we’ve never had a first date. And I’m like, now, do you have anything at all to speak of? I’m very confused. That feels like a lot of mental fast forwarding that we going on one moment, one five minute moment into a really deep, fast fantasy, or it’s a performance for the camera. And I’m like, which is it? I don’t know. It feels like a completely different setup than, say not to say that love is blind is not a completely contrived thing as well.

Melanie Childers [00:05:57]:

But it feels like we at least an opportunity to see them getting to know each other a little bit. And we only really get to see the opportunities to get to know each other when they’re on those one on one dates. And so it’s like, okay, interesting. Very. It is interesting the different ways that they produce these things.

Lynn Grogan [00:06:15]:

I think what we’re really seeing the deep relationship with is the men with each other because I don’t know about you, but when they were leaving at the end there, there were some real tears being shed. Yeah.

Melanie Childers [00:06:29]:

And it wasn’t about her. I think Charity is amazing, but it was like, bro, I’m going to miss you, which is beautiful. That’s a beautiful thing.

Lynn Grogan [00:06:40]:

I think that’s the thing that I’ve been picking up on most in the last couple of seasons of Bachelor and Bachelorette I’ve been watching. I’m like, oh, they’re here to make friends. And as adults, it can be so hard to make friends. So good on them for finding true friendship instead of true love on these reality shows. Yeah. Good for them. Well, on that note.

Lynn Grogan [00:07:04]:

What are you dying to talk about most as we get into coachable moments?

Melanie Childers [00:07:08]:

We can’t not talk about Brayden.

Lynn Grogan [00:07:11]:

Okay, let’s know. What’s your take?

Melanie Childers [00:07:14]:

I want to save him for last, but don’t. Okay, well, that was my misunderstanding. The thing that sort of really pissed me off about this episode. And I want to say again I love Charity. I think she is amazing. I think she’s an amazing human. I think most of these guys are probably amazing humans, but the blatant disrespect and boundary crossing of Braden just storming back in and literally going to find her and interrupt her date to then dominate the situation again was like, okay, one, who let this happen? I know it’s like, good TV, but it’s rude as hell and so disrespectful to her and to John, whose date he walked in on, who then got sent home. Spoiler alert if you didn’t watch it’s, just like, this is like he is made of red flags. You know what I mean? I’m like, yes. What is happening with this human and with this crew that this is okay? If I were to, I would have been like, look, I told you to get out. We’re done. I don’t need to hear any other words from you. You are interrupting my time with someone else. I would have put a very strong boundary right there and then this is a giant, huge red flag you’re waving in my face. No. What are your thoughts?

Lynn Grogan [00:08:46]:

I agree because, well, first off, I know that producers are like, hey, why don’t you go back in there? But he also like what you were saying before about performing. He also performed. And maybe overperformed this, he’s like, all right, I can continue to play this role. His sense of entitlement, though, is all of his own that is coming from him. Like, I am entitled to this woman’s time, even though she’s already said to me, we’re done. She already sent me packing. But of course I should get to come back, and I really think that his motivation for coming back was, oh, here’s my opportunity for you to beg me back on the show. Those were the vibes that I was getting.

Melanie Childers [00:09:29]:

Yeah, me too. I was like, what is the purpose of this conversation? What do you think she’s going to say to you? Right? It’s like, no, this was a no. A line has been drawn, and you keep crossing it, and that is, to me, so and, like, I don’t remember who said it, but on the woods date, there was one guy in the crowd who just went, hey, Braden, do less. And I was like, that needs to be like his tagline. Braden, do less. Do less, babe.

Lynn Grogan [00:10:03]:

My husband and I were joking. It’s almost like everybody’s just got their head on, like, their hand on Brayden’s head, and he is just, like, punching and punching and punching and punching, and he just won’t stop. And he doesn’t get the point or the hint from anybody that it’s not the Brayden show. And nobody really likes his approach. Like, he’s not reading the room at all, and he hasn’t for any of these episodes, and surely not at the end of this one where he just comes marching back in.

Melanie Childers [00:10:31]:

No. And to me, that is like I watched the first episode, and I was 100% in charity’s camp when she was like, you know what? I want him to be confident. I want him to be, like, bragging a little bit. I want him to be excited. And so I’m not going to view this as a red flag. I’m going to keep him. I was like, I can see that 100%, but now it’s like, oh, maybe you should have read that as a red flag and sent him packing. I know you had a connection, but I think it might be contrived. I think he might be full of shit.

Lynn Grogan [00:11:08]:

I think he’s definitely full of shit. I’m like, your whole personality seems to be a trauma response. Whenever she shows him a little bit of less attention or shows somebody else attention, he’s just like, okay, fine. I’m over it. Okay, fine. I’m not into you. My bags are packed, and he’s out. Every single episode has him being so reactive to her in these ways, and there’s this lack of self awareness in everything that he does. You can see almost clearly how he sees the world, and you just want to be like, that is like, bro, that’s not how this any of this works. And he just wants to shape it.

Melanie Childers [00:11:47]:

Yeah. And I think that he’s probably grown up being very handsome and very attractive and used to female attention, and he’s a traveling nurse, so that means he can go anywhere and just about have anybody he wants is my guess. I’m not a psychologist. Do not take this as a diagnosis. Just my guess. But I also get from him that he is rejection sensitive. And so he’s not used to being rejected. And so anything that he sees as a rejection, he’s like, I’m going to shut that down and I’m going to reject first because I can’t remember who said it, but they were like, look, dude, you packed your bags after every one of these weeks. Maybe you just don’t really want to be here. And I think his expectation was, she’s going to fall hard for me and I’m going to be the only one. And anything that does not look like that, I have to put the kibosh on. And it’s like, that’s just not how the world works. That might be your limited experience because you’re 24 years old, but that’s not how the rest of the world operates. And you’re going to have to figure that out.

Lynn Grogan [00:12:54]:

When he thinks that the rules of the show will change to his biding, I think even at one point in this episode, he was like, oh, I just wish she would just stop being the Bachelorete for a second. And I was like, what show did you come on that you’re expecting her to not be in this role? And yeah, of course every single one of you will be different when the cameras aren’t rolling or anywhere in the vicinity, of course, but to just say, like, oh, please change the rules of the show for me so that it can bend to my will, just says a lot about his character.

Melanie Childers [00:13:29]:

Oh, Brayden, do you think and again, we’re armchair psychologists here, essentially, but do you think that he is a narcissist? I’m reading his reactions and his desire to control and assert dominance because he literally said out in the woods, like, I’m going to assert my dominance. I was like, Why? What is the purpose of that? So my read on him is very self centered and narcissistic. Whether all the way like NPD, I don’t know, but that was my take. What about you?

Lynn Grogan [00:14:06]:

Yeah, just that you’re asking that question says everything because you’re not asking that about any of the other contestants. It’s sort of like if you have to ask it, it probably is the case, or at least tendencies in that direction. It could be true. I wouldn’t say it’s not.

Lynn Grogan [00:14:28]:

I mean, all of this goes beyond the whole idea of coaching, but looking at the brains of humans is what we do all day, every day, and just being able to see these patterns is the red flags.

Lynn Grogan [00:14:44]:

But I do have to give Charity some credit because when he says something along the lines of, well, it’s not your fault, and she’s like, yeah, I know it’s not my fault. It’s like, okay, now she’s owning it. And I do wonder to what extent she kept him around longer than maybe she wanted to, based on producers request. But at the end, she definitely this episode, you could tell she was done.

Melanie Childers [00:15:07]:

Done with his bullshit. Yeah.

Lynn Grogan [00:15:10]:

And the amount of energy it took. I mean, maybe if he was the only person she was dating, she might have wait around to see what would happen longer, but just to hold the energy for that many men, eventually you just get tired of it.

Melanie Childers [00:15:23]:

Yeah. Well, as another human being who I can put on the Extroversion, but at heart, I’m an introvert. When there’s one person who’s like an energy vampire and they’re like, sucking up all the air in the room, that is very exhausting for me. And I can see it on the faces of all the other guys that they were like, this motherfucker. Yeah. And it’s like, if I can remove that person from the equation, everybody else is going to have a better time. I think this was the time. And I kind of wish she had done it earlier, but I understand it’s a TV show and it makes good television.

Lynn Grogan [00:16:07]:

I know, but I’m sure she was.

Melanie Childers [00:16:10]:

Again, cringing watching Back. Yeah. Oh, I’m sure.

Lynn Grogan [00:16:15]:

It’S massive cringe watching Back. And also just to see the other things that she didn’t get to see on the show, just seeing it air back, it’s like, wow. I’m guessing that if she saw what she if she knew now, if she knew then what she knows now, she would have been like, oh, night one, you’re not getting the rose. You’re going home. You’re going to be sent away without any airtime. But she had to give them airtime because she could only see what she wanted to see.

Melanie Childers [00:16:38]:

Yeah. And she was just getting what she was able to see. I think I read an article with her last night or the night before that was like, yeah. Being able to watch this and see the things that I wasn’t able to see has been very eye opening. And I’m like, yeah, I bet. I bet it is for all of these people.

Lynn Grogan [00:17:01]:

Do you think though, Brayden watching this back, would you imagine he has learned anything?

Melanie Childers [00:17:07]:

That’s a good question. I think it’s possible, but I think he’d also have to have the self awareness to look at himself outside of himself. So to see everyone else’s responses to him without being reactive. But coming from a place of like, how can I learn to do better? I think that curiosity place is the only way that we do better. Instead of just like it’s really easy to stand in defense of ourselves. Like, I was right. It’s kind of hard for some people to get into that curiosity mindset to do better. You have to want to do that. So I would be curious to know if you have to want he wants to I know.

Lynn Grogan [00:17:52]:

I almost like I’m like, I got to go Google this later. Maybe he has made a comment on this. But yeah, you can always tell the people that are just so stubborn to just believing in who they are in that particular way when they’re like, I just got a bad like, I’m sorry, but, you know, four episodes deep and you’re still kind of having the same behavior. This isn’t a bad edit. This is you.

Melanie Childers [00:18:11]:

You’re the problem.

Lynn Grogan [00:18:13]:

You are the problem. It is you. Well, any last thoughts on Brayden before we move on?

Melanie Childers [00:18:21]:

Well, there is a moment that I’m curious about that was in the teaser for the rest of the season where someone comes back and she’s surprised. And so I wonder if it’s my very first thought was, oh, please don’t be him. Please don’t be please no more Brayden.

Lynn Grogan [00:18:39]:

I thought that too. I wondered that too. I’m like, surely it’s not Brayden. Surely it’s somebody maybe, like, further on in here that she sent home or maybe went home. But it actually made me a little scared for her because when she’s sitting there going and he just won’t leave, to me, I was like, wait, why is this even happening? This is problematic. There should never be a situation where somebody with this many humans surrounding her is saying those words and they just won’t leave. So I don’t know. I’m curious to see where that goes because I don’t know. Yeah, that stood out to me because I watched the tail end of this episode again, and I was like, wait.

Melanie Childers [00:19:21]:

Okay, I have to see this giant red flag what’s happening right now? So I’m curious about where that’s going to same. And can I just say, I don’t love this is petty, but I’m going to be petty. I don’t love the earrings. What is happening? Why is he full like captain Jack sparrow? What’s going on? And the endorsement is like goals at that age, but like, come on.

Lynn Grogan [00:19:54]:

It’S the earrings and the scarf combo. I did love the one part of this where Sean was just like and he came back with a scarf, and they’re like, sean, you are wearing a scarf. And he’s like, yes, but this is cashmere. That’s the best.

Melanie Childers [00:20:10]:

A status scarf. So it’s not just any old scarf from target, right?

Lynn Grogan [00:20:19]:

Man, I really, really hope that, yes, brayden is over. We won’t see any more of him. It was really nice to end an episode where it wasn’t like everybody pissed off about one of the other contestants when there was really, like, all of this man love going on. Charity seemed optimistic. She seemed genuinely sad to see people go. It wasn’t tears of frustration. It was more of that, like, bittersweet. You are an amazing person, and yet I cannot move forward with you. So time will tell. Maybe Brayden will just be here the whole show, the whole time.

Melanie Childers [00:20:52]:

Oh, God.

Lynn Grogan [00:20:54]:

I know.

Melanie Childers [00:20:55]:

Producers. Do us better.

Lynn Grogan [00:20:56]:

Do us better, do us better. Oh, man. Well, let’s move on to another topic. Do you want to talk about her experience with having dated somebody who cheated on her and moving past that because I don’t know. This has been an ongoing thing for the first four episodes where it doesn’t really seem like this open minded, let’s see who I can meet. It very much seems like I need to find somebody who’s the opposite of this man I dated for six years, and I was like, this doesn’t feel super healthy to me. And it seems like every conversation I mean, poor Xavier, she went on a date with him, and she’s basically like, you’re guilty until you prove yourself innocent here because she just saw so many traits in him.

Melanie Childers [00:21:46]:

Yeah.

Lynn Grogan [00:21:47]:

So what did you pick up on when you saw this?

Melanie Childers [00:21:50]:

Yeah, well, what was really interesting to me was the exact same thing was like it’s almost like she’s looking for someone who is exactly not the same kind of person, even though she’s obviously attracted to similar things about that person, but she desperately wants whoever it is that she ends up with on the show to not be that person. And so it’s almost like Xavier’s not really given a fair shot because he has so many similarities. And it seems like until he opened up about his mom and about why he does what he does, she was only able to see him through that lens. And now she’s getting, like, the next layer in the onion deeper. But that is a little bit concerning to me because I’m 46, but I’ve been the 26 year old, the 25 year old who I got married at 23, divorced at 25, married again at 27, divorced again at, like, 39. So I get the instinct as a young woman to go, okay, this type of person did not do me right, and I’m going to look for the exact extreme opposite. And the thing is, it’s not that. It’s the behaviors that you look for and the behaviors that you cultivate in response to those things that create a better relationship the next time around. And so it’s like you can’t just go look for the opposite of the person that hurt you. You’re just going to find different problems.

Lynn Grogan [00:23:38]:

Yeah, because it’s almost like she’s thinking, if I just find somebody who’s the opposite, I can control for someone never cheating on me again. So if they’ve never cheated before, they’ll never cheat again. It’s just like, okay, listen, if somebody’s cheated before, there’s no guarantee that they’ll do it again and vice versa. And so if that’s all we’re looking for, is just somebody who doesn’t remind you of that last person, it’s not going toward anything. You’re still running away from that person, and they’re still occupying so much mental space. They’re still, like, up in there. It’s like the third wheel on every single date that she goes on. Is this ex? And I don’t know that she dropped this at any point.

Melanie Childers [00:24:18]:

Ghost is in the room, right?

Lynn Grogan [00:24:21]:

Yes. 100%. Having had the experience of being divorced twice after that first one. Did you have any almost similarities of like, I don’t want that, or how did you approach love the next time around?

Melanie Childers [00:24:40]:

Yeah, it was very similar. It was like, okay, I don’t want anybody who drinks because my first husband was a closeted alcoholic. I was like, I don’t want anybody who drinks or who’s going to hide that for me. If we’re going to have alcohol, we’re going to do it together. And so I was very much trying to control the outcome of something that felt uncontrollable, which I think is exactly what Charity is trying to do. She’s like, I want to control the uncontrollable of somebody else’s behavior. And you literally can’t do that. That’s just not possible. I mean, your ODS might be better, but yeah. Finding love again was not super hard, but I did kind of bounce to the extreme. I was like, this person feels chaotic in some ways and unpredictable. And so I went hard the opposite way to find someone who was very safe, but that safety turned into what felt like anchor for me. And so I was like, oh, okay, I actually need a balance of safety, but not so much that we don’t leave the house. Not that it was that extreme, but it kind of felt like that extreme from, like, okay, part extreme party boy to never leaves the house and games all the time. It was like, okay, that’s not what I meant. I need someone in between. But I didn’t date between marriages. I went from married to in a relationship to married again. I don’t know that the outcome would have changed, but I wish that I’d given myself a little bit of time to find that middle place.

Lynn Grogan [00:26:17]:

It makes me wonder if Charity took any sort of time in between, just, like, jumping back in.

Melanie Childers [00:26:23]:

Yeah. Or did she go to The Bachelor and now she’s on The Bachelorette.

Lynn Grogan [00:26:30]:

Because she’s only 26. Right. She’s not very old, and it seems too of. Like, I wonder if there’s a little bit of like, okay, TikTok, my parents have been married for what, like, 48 years? I got married when they were 16. I wonder if there’s a little bit like, okay, TikTok, let’s get on this. But how do you think somebody could heal from what she’s experienced and get into a healthy relationship for the next one?

Melanie Childers [00:27:01]:

Wow, that feels like a complex question.

Lynn Grogan [00:27:04]:

I said it and I was like, this feels multilayered.

Melanie Childers [00:27:08]:

Well, but I’m also someone who’s been on both sides of the infidelity coin, and neither side is easy or a pleasant experience if I’m keeping it real and truthful. Right. Like, neither side feels good. Neither side is fun. At the end of the day, it all sucks on whether you have cheated or have been cheated on. The blowback and the fallout from it sucks for everybody involved. But one of the ways that I healed from both sides of that was to really be by myself for a while and come back to who I am and what I want and what I need from a partner. And now I’ve been in a relationship for, I think we’ve been together like seven years, and it’s so much healthier and so much stronger and we have so much better communication that the things that I did before literally are never going to happen again. Because I took the time to sit with myself, to take care of myself, to get through the blame and the shame storm of the things that I did and the things that I experienced and come back to self forgiveness and come back to really who I was and what I wanted and that gentle, compassionate place of love that we all do. Things we’re not proud of. And it’s still okay. And we all have experienced pain, and we’re still okay and worthy. And that really helped me to articulate and drop all of my previous baggage from relationships to show up as the partner that I want to be. So I really do think that it takes time and it takes intentional, purposeful, healing, maybe therapy, maybe coaching to give yourself that grace and compassion, no matter which side of the coin you’ve been on, to find yourself again. And to love yourself through the pain and through the hurt and through the self compassion of treating yourself kindly no matter what you’ve done or what has been done to you, so that you can come into a relationship and be that person who’s not immediately reactive. The second it looks like something that someone else has done before, I think you really have to spend the time healing from that trauma. Yeah.

Lynn Grogan [00:29:39]:

Do you think that you can do that in relationship?

Melanie Childers [00:29:45]:

I think it can be done. I feel like my husband and I now have done that, but we both had to be emotionally mature enough to say, hey, this conversation is not like any conversation you’ve ever had with a partner before. Like, if I were not a coach, we could not have those conversations. If I’d not been to therapy and he’d not been to therapy, we could not have those conversations. So I think it takes an incredibly emotionally mature person to be able to have and structure that conversation. So I absolutely recommend therapy and coaching to folks who’ve been through this simply because having a conversation that is so charged about previous behavior tends to bring out the reactive in people. And so you have to be able to frame it in a way that is not personal and is not blaming and is just having a conversation. So to be able to check in with that other person and their defensive responses or frustration responses, whatever is going to come up for them. And they also have to be emotionally mature enough to go, oh, okay, I’m getting defensive right now because I. Had this experience with somebody in the past, and so just even being able to say that out loud to the person you’re in relationship with is huge. Like, oh, I’m feeling kind of like, I want to argue with you because this thing happened in my past. Is that what’s happening now? That piece of conversation right there is an absolute relationship game changer, whether it’s about infidelity or not. So I do think some healing can be done in relationship, but I also think therapy and coaching and gaining that emotional wisdom and maturity is required first.

Lynn Grogan [00:31:42]:

Yeah, because as you were talking, I was thinking well, I mean, as you were talking, I was thinking about of all of the relationships that we’ve seen on the show, charity and Dotun is the only one where I feel like when I witness them together. There is a give and take and there is a generosity toward each other and there is a respect for each other that seems genuine. It doesn’t seem manufactured. It doesn’t seem like either party is putting it on.

Melanie Childers [00:32:12]:

Yeah, just as well.

Lynn Grogan [00:32:16]:

Yeah, I think that’s where my question came from. Do you think it can heal in relationship? Because when I look at theirs, I’m like, if they made it to the end, they’re the only two on this show, I could see it having that chance of maybe healing.

Melanie Childers [00:32:37]:

The reason is because I think that he comes across as very emotionally mature and is very ready to have an open, curious, respectful partnership 100%.

Lynn Grogan [00:32:53]:

And I think her background of being a therapist will maybe she has those resources to draw. And he strikes me as somebody that is, if he’s not already in therapy, he would not be averse to it. He’d be open to that idea. And so when I was thinking about just witnessing her search for love, just really thinking about just like, there’s a lot more to do here, and I mean, the success rate of bachelors and bacheloretes actually finding love and staying together and love is quite small, but I do still kind of have hope for her. But it would need to be somebody more like Dot and then way less like Brayden. It’s like almost any of these men. Yes, please. But no, I mean, that was such a beautiful I appreciate you sharing that, because a lot of these situations, you can’t just read a book. It’s like almost hearing other people’s stories of being like, oh, okay. Because if you were to believe this show, it would just be like, well, infidelity bad, we cannot return from this. Like, a relationship couldn’t heal if this happened within the relationship. And they make it seem like, well, the relationship broke up because there was infidelity and that’s the reason. But there was probably many, many things that were going on, and there’s been many people along the way who have experienced infidelity and have been able to stay in relationship and heal from it together, but using a lot of the resources that you mentioned therapy, coaching, wherever else they find resources for themselves and with support. But if you were to believe this show in all of their many ways, there’s just the one way to do it, and that’s it.

Melanie Childers [00:34:37]:

Yeah, break it off. That’s the end.

Lynn Grogan [00:34:40]:

Yeah, break it off. That’s the end. Not to say that Charity should have stayed in that toxic what sounds like a very toxic relationship.

Melanie Childers [00:34:46]:

Very toxic. Yeah. No, I think she made the right choice.

Lynn Grogan [00:34:50]:

I think she made the right choice, too.

Melanie Childers [00:34:52]:

I think that she feels very secure in her presence with Dotun in a way that doesn’t quite come across with anybody else. That was what I picked up. So even though she was very nervous about the she it felt like she felt very secure with him and that security can take a relationship very far. But even with others like Aaron, who it’s clear she feels a lot of attraction to, I don’t get that same sense of security that she feels with Dotun. And it’s interesting to me that she must have said, or at least they edited it this way. He wants to protect me in a couple of different ways in episode four, which I thought was a very interesting thing for her to be focused on, because I’m like, okay, but I don’t look at my partner and think, oh, but he protects me. That’s not what I’m looking for in a relationship. And so I’m curious about why that’s what is sticking out for her, that, oh, he wants to protect me. Oh, he wants to take care of me. I’m like, why is that what we’re looking for? Even when I left my first husband, who was alcoholic, I wasn’t looking for someone to protect me. I was just looking for someone who I had real love and chemistry for, who was not going to be chaotic. Right. And then in my current relationship, it’s like, okay, must tick all of these boxes. But protect me was never one of those. And so it makes me wonder what insecurity might be here for her. Did you pick up on that?

Lynn Grogan [00:36:50]:

Yeah, I mean, that stood out for me. It’s something that he has assigned himself this role for whatever reason. In the last episode, he was like, I must tell you about Brayden, and I must protect you. And I feel very protective of and it’s she didn’t really mention it last episode of like, oh, I like him because he protects me. But then suddenly there’s this shift in this episode where she’s like, oh, okay, he’s my protector. It’s almost like he has presented himself as like, but I will be your night in shining armor. And she’s like, oh, you are my night in shining armor. It’s like this weird, like, she’s getting on board with this idea of him, but I was like, well, charity, you already have an older brother who assigned himself to this role. So I’m like, is this akin to that? I don’t know. It struck me as very OD because, like you, I’ve never sought that out. Somebody to protect me and I don’t know, be like a policeman in my life. I don’t know what that is. But you’re right. I think it’s coming from some need or insecurity in her for wanting that.

Melanie Childers [00:37:56]:

Yeah, and I get it. I have older brothers, but still, I was like, no, they just picked on me until I learned how to fight.

Melanie Childers [00:38:05]:

That’s not the lesson we learned from them exactly.

Lynn Grogan [00:38:10]:

Do you think it potentially is the context of this show? Maybe. I wonder if other areas of her life where she’s like, yeah, I’m not seeking a protector, but for whatever reason, in this show, she’s suddenly going, oh, yeah, I don’t know what goes on in the house. And this person has signed themselves up to tell me to be my inside scoop into what happens and is in this role.

Melanie Childers [00:38:32]:

I would be curious to see if that’s a running theme.

Melanie Childers [00:38:35]:

Yeah, you could be absolutely right. That it could just be Brayden and his ability to suck up all the air in the room. It could just be that element that was creating, like, oh, my gosh, we need to protect her from this guy. It’s like, maybe that’s it, and maybe she’s sort of, like, embraced that as a narrative that’s happening. But yeah, I’d be really curious if that continues to be a thing or if it was just situation like, was it?

Lynn Grogan [00:39:05]:

Yeah. Yeah, because Aaron B, I think, makes it continue will continue to make it he certainly made it through to next week, but I think I have a hunch he makes it even further. So I’ll be curious to see if that theme comes up at all, because I don’t know that there’s anybody in the house at this point that I see that she maybe need protecting from in the same I mean, to be fair, I think she could just she was holding her own with Brandon. Obviously, she had a couple of weeks where she was seeing just one side of him, but as she learned more and more, she did kick him to the curb. Maybe a less mature or less self aware person might have kept him along after weeks, like, oh, but no, he really does like me. He really does show me affection. I don’t know. But, yeah, I would be curious to see if she has that need anymore as she goes forward.

Melanie Childers [00:39:58]:

Yeah, I’m curious about do you have an instinct for who the final three or four are? Is it a final four?

Lynn Grogan [00:40:06]:

I think usually well, they go to a hometowns in a couple of weeks where they get to go meet all their families. We do a fantasy week, fantasy Suites, which will be usually three of them, which I’m curious to see how she’ll address, because I think she is quite religious and I don’t know her stance. She hasn’t mentioned anything really about she’s totally fine kissing everyone, but she hasn’t mentioned anything about sex, sexuality, anything about intimacy from here on out. So we’ll see how she addresses then. And then it’ll get down to a final two. I think dawn will be one of them. I think Joey, she seems to have no issues. They’re painting him very much in a good light. He got a good edit. Xavier, I would guess maybe Aaron B. I really don’t think who else was left? Sean and Tanner.

Melanie Childers [00:41:03]:

I don’t see Sean and Tanner making it. I’ll be honest. My top four are your same top. Love. There’s something about Sean that irks me and that I just don’t feel like I get Tanner enough.

Lynn Grogan [00:41:17]:

Same.

Melanie Childers [00:41:18]:

He gives me a little bit of ick, and I can’t figure out why. So I’m like, I don’t know about these guys. The other four, I like Joey. I think he’s, um I don’t feel like I know enough about Aaron B to be able to decide other than he’s diametrically opposed to in that regard.

Melanie Childers [00:41:39]:

I know where you stand. Check mark. Okay. And then Xavier, I think, is a super nice guy. I think it’ll be interesting to see if she actually gives him a chance. But I think those and Dotun are the four that will probably make it. The can’t I can’t get to. If I had to pick one in this moment, I would say it’s probably Dotun, but I don’t know for sure.

Lynn Grogan [00:42:04]:

I hope for this, but usually the person I hope makes it far. Never isn’t the final, so we’ll see.

Melanie Childers [00:42:10]:

Never. Always the groomsman. Never groom. Right.

Lynn Grogan [00:42:16]:

Any final thoughts before we wrap up for the day.

Melanie Childers [00:42:22]:

Ladies? When you see red flags, believe them. Set up boundaries. You get to say no. You don’t have to be nice about it. If they start showing, like, ridiculous behavior, that crosses your boundaries and no is a boundary, like, kick his ass to the curb.

Lynn Grogan [00:42:43]:

Yes, 100%.

Melanie Childers [00:42:46]:

Boundaries are good.

Lynn Grogan [00:42:47]:

Thank you very much.

Melanie Childers [00:42:48]:

One sentence. Kick his ass to the curb. Dump that motherfucker already.

Lynn Grogan [00:42:55]:

Yeah. Love it. All right, well, on that note, thank you so much for coming. Tell people where they could find you on the internets if they went looking.

Melanie Childers [00:43:04]:

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. This has been such a blast, and I love that I got an opportunity to watch a show I don’t normally watch, which has been very refreshing and very eye opening. And I’m hooked now, so I’m in for the rest of the season.

Lynn Grogan [00:43:18]:

You’re welcome.

Melanie Childers [00:43:19]:

Now, bachelor nation, my name is Melanie childers. You can find me on the Internet@melaniechilders.com. I’m also on instagram at Melaniechilders coaching and TikTok at the Melaniechilders. And I would love to chat with any of you about the Bachelorete or Love is blind or what’s the other one? That I just finished the ultimatum. Obsessed with the ultimatum. Absolutely obsessed with too hot to handle. Holler at me. I will gab sesh and be petty with you all day long about all of these shows. That’s my fun little hobby.

Lynn Grogan [00:43:58]:

I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been a blast. And what else do I want to say? Nothing. See you next week, everyone. Thank you.