In Transcript

Lynn Grogan
Welcome back to The Bachelor Life Coach podcast. I’m your host Certified Life Coach, Lynn Grogan, and today we’re going to be talking about The Bachelor Season 24, Episode 3. And with me today I have very special guest, Rhonda Farr, Rhonda, tell the people everything about you.

Rhonda Farr
Hi Lynn! Thanks for having me. So I am the intimacy coach. I am a certified life coach through The Life Coach School just like Lynn and I help women and couples in general who want to find more intimacy in their marriages, both inside the bedroom and outside. And what I find is typically we have to work on what’s going on outside the bedroom to build that foundation for the physical intimacy that everybody’s really concerned about and seeking. So that’s what I do.

Lynn Grogan
And you also have a podcast.

Rhonda Farr
Yes. So I do The Intimacy Podcast, you can find that on whatever platform it is that you enjoy listening on. And you will hear lots of stories about my life of my husband, much to his chagrin, sometimes.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, both inside and outside the bedroom.

Rhonda Farr
You’ve heard some of that, right. Um, and you might hear a little bit about my clients and the work that I do. Also, you can find me at RhondaFarr.com to check out some other free resources and offerings that I have. So yeah, check it out. See what you think.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. And so I do have to share Rhonda you and I went through a certification together and I feel like we know all of our stuff, or at least where it was three years ago. So it was funny going into the podcast today. I was feeling super anxious. And I traced it back to I actually got coached not once but twice this morning. One of them was by Bev Aron, the lovely Bev Aron. And I feel like I’m a little bit of like vulnerability hangover from that, like, you know, it’s Bev I got was like crying within eight minutes. And so at first, I was like, Oh, this is terrible. I shouldn’t be feeling like this going into a podcast, or Rhonda and I are going to be talking about intimacy and vulnerability. So this is perfect.

Rhonda Farr
So does that mean you’re going to share with us your vulnerability?

Lynn Grogan
You know, Rhonda, it always gets back to I’m not good enough. Yes, I will be sharing. I think that’s true for all of us, though. So.

Rhonda Farr
We’ll talk more about that, I guess.

Lynn Grogan
Yes. So have you ever seen The Bachelor before I asked you to do this podcast?

Rhonda Farr
It’s so interesting. When I brought it up. I was started watching some of these episodes, and my husband’s like, Oh my gosh, I remember when we used to watch this years ago, like, we’ve got four kids now. So we don’t watch these shows as much. We don’t have as much well, we choose not to have as much time on the TV. Let me say that correctly. But anyway, we did probably like 10 years ago. So it’s been a while I’ve kind of taken a break from it, but I have to say, kind of sucked me back in that first episode.

Lynn Grogan
You’re welcome, Rhonda.

Rhonda Farr
You know, I’m gonna watch it till the end now.

Lynn Grogan
I hope you do.

Rhonda Farr
What can I say?

Lynn Grogan
It’s like really hard not to I that’s what I found. So I’m just going to go ahead and do the show recap. Okay, so the very top of the show, we’re wrapping up the drama between Kelsey and Hannah Ann, and Champagne Gate is a little bit of a kerfuffle there. We’re not going to talk about that much on this episode because Lauren Cash and I discussed that a lot in Episode Two. So you should check out that episode if you want to hear more about Champagne Gate. Then we move on to the one on one date with Victoria P. Where she and Peter go line dancing, and they have dinner by the airplane and she opens up to him and ultimately gets a rose. The next day we have a group date pillow fight that’s hosted by my favorite, Demi Burnett, she’s from a previous season of The Bachelor. And this is where some drama starts to come up with Alayah. And because Sydney accuses her of not being real on the show, so we will definitely be talking about that today. And that ends up with Sydney getting the group rose. The next day we have a pool party instead of a cocktail party, which essentially turns into a trial where Alayah is being determined if she is real or fake. I don’t even know if I saw anybody in the pool. Did you Rhonda?

Rhonda Farr
I don’t think so. In fact, I feel like it was just people sitting around engaging and all the drama about the drama party.

Lynn Grogan
There was like a pool of tears. That’s what it was. The wrong kind of pool party. And then the end we have a rose ceremony where Alayah goes home along with three other women and at the end Peters not sure He made the right decision.

Rhonda Farr
Poor Peter.

Lynn Grogan
I know for Peter, speaking of poor Peter, should we coach Rhonda?

Rhonda Farr
Let’s do it.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, let’s go into these coachable moments. Rhonda, do you want to take the first one?

Rhonda Farr
Yeah. So I just was turning on the show and thinking about, like, what’s the mindset of these ladies coming into this?

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, I’ve been wondering that too. I was thinking today I’m like if this was a group of apes, and there’s one man ape, and like 30 lady apes, like what would go on here? I think it would be a little bit more violent. Right? I was just like, imagine what happened. But here they’re like somewhat civil and like the only drama that we see is like, you know, the mental and emotional drama that comes in here.

Rhonda Farr
The pillow fight!

Lynn Grogan
But there’s the pillow fight was an outlet for a little a bit of drama, a little bit of violence, a little bit of violence. Yeah. And I, I don’t know, I was thinking about this, like, what is the mindset? I mean, maybe because they have these rules around it, people are able to wrap their brain around the idea of this, at least for a while. I think in this episode, we kind of see people start breaking down a little bit, and the claws are coming out.

Rhonda Farr
That’s a good point. In fact, I think somebody used that exact phrase. Sure the claws came out. No, I think you’re right. It’s because they have some rules that are set in place before they go into this, which if you think about it really gives them an expectation going into it. I think that’s what relationships are right? It’s just a bunch of thoughts and rules and our brain when we’re in a monogamous relationship, or at least if that’s what we’re expecting a one on one. We have some rules preset in our brain whether we realize that or not, right?

Lynn Grogan
Yeah.

Rhonda Farr
So we’re going into that relationship expecting it to abide by those rules. I think you’re exactly right. These ladies, they’re going into this encounter into this show with some rules. And as long as it follows what they think should be happening. They’re relatively happy about it, even if that means the man that they are pursuing is holding hands and kissing and doing whatever else with another woman. They’re okay with it because of the expectations that were already there. And they seem to be falling within the parameters of the rule.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. And I think what’s interesting, too, is when anybody voices concerned with Peter, like, oh, you’re probably thinking about all these other women. And he’s just like, Girl when I’m with you, you’re the only one I think about, I mean, maybe not that smooth, because like, there are times when he’s a little awkward, but that’s what he says to them. Like, when I’m with you, you’re the only one I’m thinking about. And that’s, I guess, how he gets around, making them feel safe, and making them feel like available that he’s available for them to be vulnerable. That’s kind of what my take was on that.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, I think so. I think He does a good job using all the right words. And I’m curious though if some of the women believe his words or not like you can see throughout the show that some of the women buy into it a little more than others. I think, also, I think it’s interesting that he says a lot to the girls, this feels right. Or there’s totally a connection here. He uses that wording, I just feel something. And I wonder the interpretation of the girls, well, if Peters feeling something, what does that mean for them? What does that mean about the future? And I’d be curious to know what’s going on in their mind when he’s using that wording.

Lynn Grogan
I would too, and I think there’s also a lot of disconnect that happens for people because they’ll go on this one on one date, have the most intimate connection with Peter and think, holy cow, like if I had the same experiences these women have on their dates, I’d be like, this is the one totally falling in love. I can’t wait for the next date. And then they see him repeat it with someone else. So I think that you know, if we’re going to be talking about real and fake later today, I think there’s also some questioning about whether it was real with them. If he’s able to replicate it with all these other women too.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, such a good point. And it’s hard for me to tell if they are seeing this in real-time, you know, the way the show is filmed and the way it’s aired, I’d be curious to know how much of that they do have insight into the relationships that he has with other girls. Of course, the other girls come back and tell them but I’d be curious to know how much they actually see in real-time.

Lynn Grogan
I don’t know. Probably not as much as we think that they do. Sometimes they seem very clueless. But I mean, you know, and I think Alayah tries to handle this by saying like, I just don’t want to hear about all of your relationships, as if she could just pretend like it wasn’t going on. But it’s kind of hard not to have somebody making out in the corner of the room, or I mean, you have seen on other episodes, like making out right in front of them. too, like just stealing him for a kiss. So, yeah, I don’t know, Rhonda, it’s hard to even say like how you would coach somebody on this circumstance of like 30 women and dating one man. Not really anything that we see socially, except for on this show.

Rhonda Farr
Exactly. You know, I think we can see from some of the girls that they handle it in a different way, right? Like you were saying, Alayah said, I just don’t even want to think about it. So she’s kind of resisting or avoiding all that might come up with thinking about him being with another girl. And that’s how a lot of us cope, right? We just want to avoid and pretend it’s not there. But I think the interesting thing about this is when we try to push something away from us, it takes a lot of effort. And we think we’re keeping it out of our lives. But when we intentionally have to push something like really think about that visual, like you’re pushing something heavy, your hand has to always be on it, or it slides right back. And I think the same thing happens with these girls. When they just try to avoid, then they’re always unknowingly tied to whatever it is they’re trying to avoid.

Lynn Grogan
The flip side of that is if you’re grasping all the time, like grasping for time with Peter grasping for his attention, that takes up a lot of energy too… that neediness of grabbing it. Is that where you’re going to go with it, Rhonda?

Rhonda Farr
Absolutely. And the way I like to think about it, too, I explain this to my clients sometimes, and those who are listening, maybe they can relate to this. Like when you feel a really strong emotion, or you have a lot of strong thoughts about something, sometimes we’ll indulge in it because we feel so justified. We saw this on that last episode a lot. We won’t bring it up again.

Lynn Grogan
And I think what’s interesting about I think this will probably be the last episode where this happens is the women most of the women that we see go home, like don’t get a lot of airtime. And I think part of what’s easy for Peter to cut at this point except for you know, of course, Alayah is he’s just cutting the women he doesn’t even think about right? Like if our relationship with anybody is our Thoughts about them – And what’s going on in our head and the stories that we tell about other people. I think, right now it’s kind of easier for Peter because he doesn’t have relationships with those women at all. Maybe he’s talked to them once or twice, but it’s probably more small talk. And so I think where the drama builds up, as the season goes on, is he does actually have relationships with women. And then they start to respond when they get removed from the show, how they’re not good enough how, you know, they just weren’t what he needs. And so it will be interesting to see, like, you know, today we see one mindset and how it shifts as the season goes on, and what they think about this whole situation.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. If you don’t care that much, or if you just don’t even know if you don’t have a lot of thoughts about something. There’s usually not a lot of drama when it’s gone, right? Nope. Whatever life is still normal.

Lynn Grogan
It’s like decluttering your house right? He’s just decluttering the house of women. Oh, Peter. Oh, speaking of things that are terrible. No, let’s move on. Let’s move on to coachable moment number two. I want to go to that one on one date with Peter and Victoria.

Rhonda Farr
I love that. Can I just say, I really enjoyed that piece? Yeah,

Lynn Grogan
yeah, I did, too. So, in this scene, Victoria P is opening up about her past, and she’s telling Peter about how, at a very young age, her father passed away and then her mother fell into addiction. And then she and her sister and her mom were in and out of shelters. And essentially, Victoria P took on this caregiver role where she was taking care of her sister and probably I would guess her mom a lot too making sure that they were fed not always sure where the next meal is coming on. And you could tell it took so much bravery for Victoria to bring this up. Like those were real tears to me. Is that what your take was too? Yeah.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, I agree. I think that she really had a moment that she felt like she could trust him. And that’s why she was able to open up, but you’re right, you could tell getting the words out and the way she said them. It was quite a test. It was vulnerable.

Lynn Grogan
What do you want to talk about here is there was a moment where Victoria P says, its meaning her past has affected my relationship. Sometimes I didn’t feel deserving of someone. And I thought that that part was really interesting, this idea of deserving another human or deserving the love of another person. And what do you think has happened in Victoria’s life where she goes from feeling like she’s not worthy of another person, to now feeling like, 100% sitting in front of Peter vying for his love with 30 other women, like you can tell that she’s just like, yeah, we’re on the same page here. She admits that she’s falling in love with him. But how do you go from thinking that you don’t deserve to have a good mate in life, to then suddenly feeling deserving?

Rhonda Farr
I was actually thinking about this today. It’s so interesting that you asked that because actually did not. We didn’t discuss that before. But I wonder if maybe she did get some therapy or perhaps a fantastic life coach, right? Because usually, when we have thoughts and feelings about ourselves that run so deeply, we have trouble gaining awareness about them even being there. So for example, you probably see this with some of your clients will have all these results in our lives, these things that we don’t really like, and will often think I’m broken, something’s wrong with me, I just cannot figure this out. Why do I keep doing the same things over and over and over again, and people will just be baffled that they can’t either get a relationship that they like or lose the weight or whatever it is, right? But it’s because they don’t have that awareness of all the things that they’re doing to actually sabotage themselves. And they don’t have the awareness of all those limiting beliefs. So I don’t know how it happened to answer your question, but somewhere along the line, I believe she had to gain some awareness of how those childhood circumstances and memories are affecting her and somebody had to help her kind of untangle all those from her worth and who she is today.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, absolutely. Because at some point, you know, when you’re a kid, you don’t really know how to decipher all the messages you’re getting, you’re just thinking, Okay, this is the truth, the adult in my life is telling me these things. So I must not be good, right? Like I must not be good enough. What we do know from this episode is that Victoria has been in beauty pageants just like Alayah. And so it does make me wonder if there was a lot of self-reflection and also maybe some coaching or a really good therapist along the way that helped her see that like, Hey, you are not the product of those circumstances from your youth. Like you don’t have to be that person anymore if you don’t want to, and realizing that it’s a choice, I think is such an amazing thing. I know it’s like made a big impact on my life is realizing that like, yeah, it’s okay that you use this see yourself in one way, but you don’t have to see you yourself that way now. And I see that impact every part of my life. Like, you know how much money I make, like what types of relationships that I can have, the types of jobs I can have, you know, before coaching, definitely thought I was the type of person that could only have a certain type of job and make very little amount of money and etc. And so something like that must have happened for her too because you don’t just go from thinking that you’re not deserving of love to then being on a TV show and opening your heart in the way that she did.

Rhonda Farr
I agree completely. I love what you said about you realizing that it’s a choice. So in the work that I do, sometimes women will have a situation where they will blame someone else and I could see how Victoria could blame her mom or blame her father’s death, or even maybe even her little sister for needing to be taken care of. I don’t know as crazy as that sounds. Sometimes our brains do crazy things. But when we blame others or other circumstances, it totally disempowers us. And we then become at the effect of everybody else. It’s such a dangerous place to be in our lives because what that tells us is, we’re stuck. We’re the victim. And we literally like the opposite of what you said, we have no choice and how we turn out. So when I coach my clients on this, sometimes I’ll encourage them to take responsibility for their part. And occasionally, they’ll get really offended or upset by that because they think I can’t let this other person off the hook or, you know, I’m really justified in feeling so sorry for myself and all the things that have happened to me. And I’ll say, yeah, absolutely. You can totally keep that story if you want to. However, what I want you to do is let yourself off the hook. I want you to let yourself off the hook by being able to let go of that and then become who you authentically are, not what your circumstances projected onto you or told you that you were. So I love that word you use choice because I definitely think we have choices. And it’s for us, not for the other people in our lives when we make the choice to move past.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, I mean, I definitely see that in my clients too. I coach female physicians. And so I think society would look at a female physician and be like, holy cow, you are a badass, everything must be perfect for you. And ultimately, almost every coaching session I have comes back to that idea of self-worth, and not feeling good enough. And so I think really outside perception. Just because you have a certain circumstance in your life doesn’t mean that it automatically comes with a set of thoughts or a story that you tell about yourself. It still takes work. And so we could look at any person on The Bachelor and just go, Oh, well, you had it so easy. You know, like your parents were a certain income you got to go to certain schools, and that doesn’t automatically translate into you feeling amazing about yourself or thinking or deserving of love or all of that. Like it really is a mental component, you can see both ends of it just because she grew up in shelters and didn’t have a stable environment doesn’t mean she turns out one way. And just because you have a certain profession in life and you worked your butt off to get there, doesn’t mean you automatically also feel good. And so I think that’s what’s interesting about the range of life coaching is that like, you can be anywhere you are in life, and still be, I don’t know, find this work to be valuable and help you see how you can choose who you are in life and how you think about it.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, what kind of what you’re talking about with Victoria. Her past was one way. And even with the physicians, I think it’s kind of the opposite concept. Like you have these amazing things. And sometimes we think that we have to kind of fall in line with what our experiences are, what our past was, but I wish the world knew that’s just not true, like at any point in time. Again, going back to that you just get to decide. Your past doesn’t determine who you are. Your present doesn’t have to determine who you are.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. And I just think that unfolded really beautifully in this scene with Victoria. I just felt like a certain genuineness there. And what I also thought was really interesting, and this whole, you know, come up later is I mean, Victoria, just like Alayah has a history in pageants. And they both take it in different directions like Victoria could now swing to the side where she seems totally fake. And where everything is a facade, but somehow she’s been able to tap into this part of herself that’s so self-aware, and so open. So I think that actually might go nicely into number three, which expands on this scene. Do you want to take that?

Rhonda Farr
Yeah. So when they were in this moment, and she was sharing Victoria says, “I just feel so good right now.”And Peter says “This feels so right. Insanely, right.” So let’s break it down. Why do you think they both are saying that they feel all these amazing, insanely right good things in this moment when she’s talking about something really pretty terrible, right? But they both have this overwhelming like good feeling.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. Which they’re attributing to the other person, but really, it’s because they’re having thoughts about the situation. I’m guessing it’s “I’m really connecting with her. Maybe she’s the one maybe he’s the one.”

Rhonda Farr
Yeah. So my thoughts about it are when you’re open and you’re sharing who you are, that just feels good because you’re in alignment with your true self. Right? So I’ve done this before, I’m sure you have and other people who are listening like we’ve been in a situation where we think we’re supposed to say and do something a certain way to measure up or whatever, like, so we’re not being our true and authentic self and it just doesn’t feel good, it doesn’t feel comfortable, it doesn’t feel peaceful. So that’s one thing. Like, I think she was just feeling very open and in alignment with who she is a person. The second thing is, I also think that when we feel like we can truly be accepted totally as we are, like, that is the essence of what we all want as humans, like, we just want to be understood and accepted exactly as we are. And my guess is because of her ability to open up and say all those things, and he didn’t run away, she was having thoughts that he accepts me, past, present, flaws and all and that feels amazing.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly what I saw there too. And it was like it was a relatable moment to like, here we are watching this wild TV show going on dates. And in that moment, I mean, I couldn’t help but think about like my relationship with my husband. Like, you know, finally finding somebody that I felt like accepted me, because like when you were talking about being fake, I was like, I can’t help but just think of, I don’t know, like all of my 20’s Rhonda like, right, like, in the moment I didn’t know, like what was fueling it, but I had a lot of actions fueled by trying to prove I was a certain person to be better than I was like, to appear better than I was. And I can see the stark difference now of what it’s like, like, okay, you know, within the constraints of marriage, like we’ve decided that you’re my one person, I just see myself growing and all these ways, like, it’s interesting how, when you narrow it down to one person, you have so much freedom to like explore, which I mean, you talk about all the time in your podcast is just like, all of your things come up and so we see them just like building this really nice foundation. Like if they do expand on their relationship, they’ve started out on this foot where like, they are actually real. This is what Peter keeps saying he’s looking for like these real raw moments. That requires so much bravery. And I think I mean, any true relationship requires that kind of bravery and like, putting yourself out there.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, I totally agree. And to take a step back, and maybe for the people at home to kind of think about how they’ve experienced this in their own lives, I think even with friends, right, like you have those friends, that they’re fun to be around. But for example, this happened to me when we were first married. Our marriage wasn’t great. But I had this peer group that I felt like had really great marriages and everything was going well for them. So when we were with them, I would be like, everything’s good. And all lovey on my husband, then when we go home, I would be like, frustrated about these things. So what initially ended up happening is, I was a little bit envious of these friends and when we were with them, it was okay, but it didn’t feel really great. I never felt a close connection with him. Because I was hiding like, I was not myself. So I don’t know what they probably thought we were great and they probably had a great time. But for me, I was kind of like meh take it or leave it, right? Because it was almost like work to be their effort to try and be the part.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. And I think it goes back to what you were talking about before, like that resisting and grasping. You know, I think there’s a lot of like that going on when you’re not showing up as your true self. And so you’re going to get one of the two of those. And, you know, the only time that you’re not expending energy and pushing or pulling is when you’re in that true accepting place. And you can just be calm, like exactly who I am today is totally fine.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, and the other thing about that is when you’re in that accepting place, and you’re, you’re in that moment, like you can be present, right, and you can focus on the other person and you can focus on the words and you can really feel what you feel. But when you’re having to be in your head, what’s my next move? How do I act? What do I say? Or like, whatever the drama is going on, you miss so much of the true experience. Yeah, just miss it.

Lynn Grogan
And I thought it was remarkable that she was able to open up like this, like, I’m sure there are 40 cameras trained at them. So the amount of focus it would take to just stare into that other person’s eyes and say, all right, like, let’s go there. I just think about the amount of bravery, it takes me or any of my clients to go to that place. That scary place, the place that you’re usually avoiding, and open up about it. Like, I just think it’s remarkable what she was able to do on the show. With that kind of pressure.

Rhonda Farr
I agree. And we kind of had talked about this before, like, what prepares us or what allows us to be able to do that great because you said you’ve kind of grown into it, and I have to do you have thoughts about that? Like, how do we progress to that next level?

Lynn Grogan
I think for me, it was just really owning that like he didn’t need to change at all. If there was something going on, for me, it was me. It was my thoughts that I was having. Yeah, a lot of what I’ve been bringing to my coaching sessions with my coaches have been little things that have happened just like oh, I noticed I showed up in this small way. And I’m realizing more and more how judgmental I can be. And not even realizing it, like really subtle judgments. And so I think I don’t remember what your question was Rhonda, but oh, how do you grow into this? Yeah. And I think it’s being willing to both go to those brave places, but then also look at the small moments that might help you open up to those bigger things.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, I like it. For me, I was thinking about it, and it feels like I did it so gradually, like I was really bad at it for a while and I had to keep practicing over and over being brave, but the big piece of that for me was allowing the emotion to come up and not running from it. So going back to what we talked about before, just letting that emotion be there and pass through me. But here’s the other piece of that. What I was letting pass through me was sometimes the embarrassment or whatever was going on. But also I had to be okay with what the other people were feeling if they wanted to judge me or have thoughts about me. I really had to practice the skill of letting other people have their thoughts about me. And that being okay. And that’s been a game-changer.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, that one is a total game-changer. Because that’s how I think you can keep showing up as your authentic self when you’re like, it’s okay, what they’re thinking about me that says more about them than it does about me. So as you were talking, I was thinking about, like, people running away from their emotions, and it just makes me think of, I think, at least twice now on the show. Peter has like had a lot of over, overcome with emotions and has left early. I mean, it happened in this episode, he left the pool party without talking to everybody. And it happened to After, you know, previous Bachelorette Hannah Brown was on the show, he cut a date early. And so we can see moments where he stays in moments where he goes, because what’s physically going on for him. So I do have a question for you so like, with your clients, who are so freaked out about like being brave and vulnerable with their mate, like, how do you help them take that first step?

Rhonda Farr
Well, so what we do is we first are very clear, like you said, we get and we do a lot of work on this we get, we’re going to talk about it in two minutes, I guess right here, but it takes a while to really understand that what somebody else is thinking, and feeling is always about them. It’s never about us. And so I really drive that point home with my clients and help them get very clear that you know, I can be exactly who I am and do exactly what I do. And if there are 100 people in the room, there will be 110 different thoughts, right, like they’re always thinking something different. And when we can truly grass, that that is true, then we realize we finally realize that as hard as we try to say and do the right thing, it doesn’t work, we literally can never change the way other people feel about us. And my clients will fight me on this. It’s not an easy thing to learn and really feeling your bones. But once they get it, it’s freedom, because they’re no longer tethered to the right thing or the shoulds. Or the expectations because they just get to be themselves when they realize they can’t manage other people’s thoughts and feelings anyway.

Lynn Grogan
And if somebody doesn’t love you, like that’s on them, right? Like, if they’re like, you know, I don’t want to be friends with you totally fine, right? There’s literally millions and billions of other people in the world that you could have that relationship with. And so just like letting it be okay, that people don’t like you such a game-changer.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, and here’s the piece of that too. That’s important. If you like that person, you can like them and feel however you want to about them, no matter how they feel about you. Sometimes I have clients who do that too. Right? Like they have their own feelings that don’t reflect the feelings of the partner. That’s okay.

Lynn Grogan
Totally. Okay. Yeah, it’s it feels so good. It feels good to love other people or to like them like it feels good for us, not them. We get to feel that part. So

Rhonda Farr
100% We can never if they love us, or they don’t love us. This is an interesting concept that a lot of people don’t get but my husband could love me to the moon and back, but I literally cannot feel whether he loves me to the moon and back or not. I can feel what I interpret from him. I can feel the feelings that I have inside of me. But he literally cannot take the feeling of love and inject it into my body. It’s impossible.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. I think let’s move on to the next one. Because I think you know that part of it where you’re just talking about like somebody else’s feelings are their own. They feel really true to us. And I think in this next scene, we have the group date. And Sydney feels so compelled to tell Peter, that Alayah may not be who she seems to be. And she feels like it’s the right thing to do to tell him that she’s not that Alayah is not there for the right reasons. We see this unfold to the rest of the episode where essentially, this hit Peter’s biggest fear, which is that he could get to the end of the show, decide on a wife, and then she ends up being completely different than who he thought she was. And so we have Sydney saying, if you’re coming in here worrying about how you’re going to be perceived, then you aren’t going to be your real self with Peter. And Peter keeps making the request to be real. And so we see this unfold back and forth. I mean, at first, Alayah is incredibly confused I guess, maybe she’s confused about Sydney’s opinion all along about real and fake, but it just really got me thinking like, what does it mean to be real and fake? And I know we’ve already talked about it a little bit on this episode. And who gets to decide that? And Sydney thinks she can determine this?

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, yeah, she does. And to be fair, toward the end of the episode, some of the other girls have similar opinions. They were not nearly as vocal about it and as overt as Sydney was initially, but some of the other girls have some of the same thoughts and opinions. But still, that being said, does that make it true?

Lynn Grogan
Right. And that’s something we keep hearing Alayah say is, this isn’t fact its opinion, which I hundred percent agree with. Me too, right? Because as Peter interviews all these women, some of them are like, no, I love her. Like, yeah, she puts it on a little bit. But nothing alarming, right. Some of the girls do. And we hear them being just kind of neutral about it. They’re like, yeah, just find out for yourself, Peter, like this is your job to take and then other people obviously are like, yes, 100% she’s fake. If we take a step back look at this, like the source is somebody who’s in competition for his love, essentially. So he should take that with a little bit of a grain of salt. But it’s just so interesting how he doesn’t turn to himself for the answer.

Rhonda Farr
He seems so triggered by the words being fake. So triggered by it and I have a feeling that has to do with his past, right? He’s been on the show before will The Bachelorette and was kind of hard for him. Obviously, he’s really triggered by that wording, which perhaps is why he focuses on it so much. And he is sucked into it as well. Right?

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. Well, and he, I don’t know that he ever pause to just think like, Hey, what do I think of this information being told to me and realizing that again, he gets a choice like does get a choice what he thinks about it, he can believe Sydney or not, even if they’ve had open and vulnerable conversations up until now. Her words people Don’t have to accept them. He could just be like, Oh, thank you for the information, I think a little bit differently than you. But I don’t know that he pauses and lets himself know that he could have this choice about what to think about this. And then we immediately see him getting opinions from everybody else, which seems useful, right? Like, I don’t know about you, Rhonda. But like, sometimes when I’m trying to make a decision, I will get opinions from other people. And like, more often than not, I just get really confused and stuck. Yeah, because so many people offer you different thoughts, and then you don’t know what to believe, which is exactly what happens to Peter.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, I think it’s a very human response that he had. That’s what I think. People are telling him things. I do not think he took the time to pause at all. Most people would not do that. Unless, of course, they’re a coach or a therapist or counselor or something. Like most of us are reacting to everything around us constantly, right? Like something is said, we react unconsciously. Of course, we’re having thoughts and feelings about it, but we’re not really aware of them. We’re just doing and saying and, you know, having this vibration in our body that we can’t really put our finger on just it feels icky and uncomfortable. So I think that’s what’s happening for everyone involved, not just Peter. But Sydney, Alayah, like, that’s why they’re doing these weird random things and saying things that really aren’t their business because they’re reacting constantly.

Lynn Grogan
Well, and I think to at some point, like, there have been many points on the show where Peter thinks he’s going to get the right answer, or the right decision is going to come to him. And he thinks it’s going to come from people outside of him. So he thinks that by talking to all these people, he’s gonna find out the truth, whether she’s fake, or if she’s real, and she’s there for the right reasons. But that’s not going to come from outside. There’s no determination of it because it’s not a fact. And I think in life, we all play different roles. So for me, you know, my husband’s told me like he knows when I’m coaching because I have coach voice. Does that mean I’m fake when I’m coaching? Or does it just mean that I’m in a different role of my life and that kind of step into a different mindset? And maybe my voice changes, I’m sure I’m gonna have like a podcast voice that sounds a little bit different than maybe how I talk normally. It doesn’t mean that I’m fake. It doesn’t mean that like Alayah is fake, because the camera comes on and with her training and pageants, there’s a persona that comes out because she’s like, oh, the cameras on me and this is the expectation. If that’s your habit, I think she said she had done pageants for eight years, one would expect that there was a certain way that she has trained herself and has been trained to show up in front of a camera, which other people are regarding is fake, but I can see why she’s confused. Because for so many years, that was totally okay and accepted. And now suddenly, it’s wrong.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, absolutely. I think you’re right. So your question was like, how do we know if somebody’s being fake? I think only the person knows. And they probably don’t even really know right? Like, I think it’s within their power. I think there’s a way that we can like a litmus test is what I call it that we can evaluate. But yeah, what is your answer to that? How do we know?

Lynn Grogan
I mean, I think it’s in reflection and trying to be aware. I mean, like we, you know, talked about a little bit before, like, I was like, oh, that sums up my 20s. I was trying so hard and trying to impress people. I know in reflection when I look back, that was it. I know if I’m doing things that I would ordinarily say no to but I find myself saying yes to that’s probably coming from kind of a fake place. Or if I’m agreeing with somebody, even though I don’t agree. Like you probably are going to notice it mostly in your actions like what you’re doing, if you notice it at all. If you notice yourself doing like weird things, as you said in this episode, people start doing some strange things. Probably from that.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah. And it’s interesting that you say it probably shows up in your actions. I agree with that. And actions are the thing that I think that we noticed the most. However, feelings as you and I know, as coaches fuel those actions and so a little piece of advice that I give to my clients, for example, sometimes my clients will talk about their husbands wanting to be intimate with them or have sex with them a certain amount of times in a week or whatever. And so I talked to my clients a lot about, you know, you don’t want to have sex with your husband, while you’re feeling resentful, because what that will do is cause this association in your brain with intimacy and resentment and it just gets really messy and muddy. And so my clients will say to me, Well, sometimes I want to have sex with him, not because I’m feeling it, I want to but because I love him, and I just want to do it for him. Is that okay? Because I’m not really into it. So what I encourage my clients to do is take a look at how they’re feeling, because likely if you want to have sex with your husband, even though you’re not into it, you’re going to be feeling willing or loving or compassionate. And that’s not a bad place to be coming from, right? But if you’re doing it because it’s a chore, and it’s an obligation, and he expects you to feel so good, you’re going to feel burdened or resentful or just super annoyed. Right? So I often tell my clients to take a look at how you’re feeling when you engage in the action. And not always, but generally, that will give you a good idea if you’re acting in authenticity with who you want to be in that.

Lynn Grogan
Those are great points. Like, as you’re talking, I was like, Oh, I should like tuck this away from myself here. Right? Please do. Thank you, Rhonda. I think this happens every time. I’m like, coaching advice for myself in here, which I love. Let’s see. I mean, I think we covered everything there like this idea of like how you would know if you’re fake or real and I mean, ultimately, we don’t know I think which puts us at Our last point, which Peter thought he was going to get some idea of real or fake by giving or not giving a rose, but that doesn’t happen. Do you want to take that one rather? Number Five?

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, let’s talk about it. And you can tell at the end like, it seems like a struggle, right? Like, he seems like he is an agony trying to figure out those last roses. And then they come in and take one away. So here he is, with his one rose. And he just seems so confused throughout the whole episode. Really, don’t you think? Like, it was almost painful for me to watch him this time. He didn’t it seem like he was having fun.

Lynn Grogan
No, not at all. He started out the season having lots of fun and immediately went into his worst fears. And I think if I had to speculate what’s happening here, Peters, like if I can just make her go away, I’ll feel better, right? If I can change the circumstance, then thinking that that automatically would make them feel better. He doesn’t give her the rose, she leaves the house, and he doesn’t feel better. And the reason for that is whatever he is thinking is causing that feeling of continual doubt. He thought he was going to have this for sureness, he says, and he doesn’t feel that way. Guessing he’s thinking things like, maybe I’m wrong about this. Maybe she should be here. Maybe Sydney’s not telling me the truth. Like, who knows what he’s thinking. But we can see in his actions, he’s very doubtful. And then he’s going to Chris Harrison, and he’s going to the producer saying, I think I made the wrong choice here. I thought I was going to be sure and I wasn’t. And I mean, you know, as well as I do, like in coaching. Like, if you change the circumstance, you’re not gonna feel any differently until you change your thoughts, if he had decided in that moment. This is the hundred percent right reason to send her home. Our relationship is complete. Thank you for coming on the show. That’s where he would have gotten his for sureness, but because he didn’t choose to think those types of thoughts, he’s gonna stay in doubt. And he’s going to keep indulging and doubt in the sneak peek at the end tells us he probably continues that line of thinking, because it looks like she does come back on the next episode.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, so we can send the circumstance the person or whatever it is away. What we’re still left to deal with our own brain. We can’t get rid of that. Another thing I was thinking it kind of goes back to what I said before as well. He was really coming from a place of fear and insecurity. When he was taking action, right? He was up here making this choice. And if you think about it, he probably had some thoughts going on about well, he told us what his thoughts were. My biggest fear is falling for someone and being fooled again and he said, I can’t let that happen. So he’s having these thoughts like that, which probably feel pretty heavy, pretty scary, pretty insecure. I don’t know something like that. And when you feel afraid and insecure. Think about anything you do in life. Is that how you give your best effort?

Lynn Grogan
Oh, he’s so confused. He’s very confused. And he essentially reacts here. He leaves the room again, we see him leaving a room because of his emotions. He walks out of the rose ceremony can’t handle it has a chat. That doesn’t really solve anything for him. But it seems like okay, I guess the best decision here is to just not give her a rose. And I don’t know. I mean, he’s not going to get that. He’s basically got all these competing thoughts going on. Is she real? Is she fake? He decided that she’s fake. And I think I mean, that also ties back to I mean, one of the pieces of evidence that I think put him into the category of things she was fake, is when he did talk to Victoria P. the one he had his one on one date with this time and she said connected with two right connected with, I think, I mean, she’s one of the people he has probably the highest level of trust with. And she told him that Yeah, Alayah had asked her not to mention that they knew each other from pageants. And I think with that piece of evidence, he’s like, Well, here’s somebody I really, really, really trust, telling me that there was a lie, or kind of omission of information. I don’t know if we can even call it a lie. But yeah, I think he uses that information. And then when he doesn’t feel better, he’s still in this place of doubt, and confusion, and unsettledness. So

Rhonda Farr
I agree. Let’s think about how the brain works here too, right? Because you mentioned the word competing thoughts. He had two very different thoughts. She’s not being real and authentic with me. And then what did he say? Like he said, I feel something with her right. I feel something for you. So he has these two thoughts. Like there could be something, but also she might be being fake. And that’s pretty confusing with the brain. It happens a lot for us, right? Like we have competing thoughts all throughout our lives like I love my kids, but I don’t freaking feel like making all the lunches and doing the bedtime routine, right? Or I want to earn an income, but I don’t want to go to work today, right? We see it throughout our lives. The thought that we are focusing on the most at the moment will get our attention, right, that thought that we choose to focus on is the one that leads our past sort of, so to speak. Here’s the other thing that goes along with that is a little thing called confirmation bias. You know what this is, but we’ll explain a little bit for the people who are listening. Let’s say for example, you buy a green Volkswagen Beetle. When you buy that car and you’re driving around in it, you’re going to start to notice all the green Volkswagen beetles that drive past you every day and have been for the past few months, but you haven’t noticed those before. Right? Because your brain is kind of looking for what you know. So when you’re indulging in the thought, like I really feel this connection with her. You’re going to see all the things about her, that make you feel connected. And then when you’re really focused on this thought she might be fake, like, I don’t even know what’s going on. You’re going to find the evidence that supports all the way she’s being fake. And your mind is like a mess, right? Like horrible mess.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, it’s total mess.

Rhonda Farr
And poor Peter, he doesn’t know all these things. You know what, Lynn? I think we should write the producers and have them bring a life coach on. So these people. Can you imagine how fun that would be? You could see their sessions taped. But anyway, poor Peter. Peter. No. Yeah. He doesn’t know what’s going on with his brain. And he’s a mess.

Lynn Grogan
He’s a mess. And yeah, you’re you’re totally right. When he’s talking to Alayah. Everything is great. They feel both reassured. Everything’s amazing. And then he leaves and he’s like, everything falls apart. What is happening here. So poor Peter. Yeah, I mean, maybe we’ll see some resolution next week. My guess is that as the show goes on, the stress of everything thing comes up. I don’t think those thoughts are going to let up. I think they’re going to come become more and more intense for him. So I think the doubty of this and the emotion around this, there’s just going to keep kind of windmilling him forward, poor guy.

Rhonda Farr
Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see. And I don’t know how much time they have, like in between these episodes in real time. But it’ll be interesting to see if he’s able to really get a handle on his thinking about this whole thing. In the meantime, you’re saying like if he ever really recovers and comes back and is able to be present, because the one thing we know is what we focus on, that gets our energy we’ve talked about it takes our mental energy, right? And if we’re not careful, we’re just going to miss out on everything else, because we’re so engrossed in the drama of it. And I hope Peter doesn’t miss out on all the things that that are around him and that the show has to offer.

Lynn Grogan
yet to be seen, so that’s five moments, Rhonda. Yeah, yeah. So if somebody wanted to find you, I know you did it at the top of the show, but let’s remind them again, where would they go to find you?

Rhonda Farr
So you can go to RhondaFarr.com. You can read more about me, you can look in my resources tab to find some of my free offerings. Also, you’ll find my podcasts there, which is called The Intimacy Podcast. So if anybody has any thoughts about the show, my email, my contact information is on there. I love to hear what you guys have to say. And if anything kind of struck a chord in your own life even better, let’s talk about it, huh?

Lynn Grogan
Yes, definitely if you are having anything with intimacy and sex coming up, or anything else, but it’s all good about all the things all the relationships and check her out. I will also have her information on the show notes for this episode. LynnGrogan.com/Episode3. Yay.

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