In Transcript

Lynn Grogan
Welcome back to the Bachelor Life Coach podcast. I’m your host certified Life Coach Lynn Grogan and today we are going to be talking about and life coaching on scenes from Season 24, Episode Two of The Bachelor, Peter’s season and with me today I have a very special guest and very special friend Lauren Cash. Lauren, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself?

Lauren Cash
Yes, hi everyone. I am so excited to be on the podcast with Lynn I hope procrastinating perfectionist get more done and work less and hit their money goals in my job at my private practice, and why I’m so excited to be on the show is that I used to watch The Bachelor and Bachelorette at every single season and grad school when I was getting my masters in psychology, and all my friends and I would sit around and watch and basically psychoanalyze the contestants, which is primarily what we’re doing now, but with the coaching lens, which is even more fun, and so I can’t wait to talk about it all with Lynn because she’s also one of my really good friends.

Lynn Grogan
Yes.

And I have to tell you, I was nervous to ask you because I was like, I don’t think Lauren watches TV. And it turns out you were totally willing to watch TV. I love it.

Lauren Cash
I know. I haven’t been recently but I was so excited to dive back in and I’m like, Oh, yeah, nothing’s changed. The drama is still there. And it’s awesome.

Lynn Grogan
Yes, I’m finding more and more people watch TV. I was like, Okay, I had a lot of you know, TV shame for a while letting that go Lauren, life coaching.

Lauren Cash
You’re welcome.

Lynn Grogan
Right. Okay, so I’m going to do a show recap, and then we’re going to dive into the coaching side. In this episode, season 24, Episode Two of The Bachelor, we start out with the cliffhanger. And Peter and Hannah are sitting on a bench discussing whether or not she should come back on the show. Peter, meanwhile, minute by minute is getting more and more covered with glitter. And ultimately they decide, or he decides that No, she’s not going to come back on. We’re going to talk about that later. What happens there, Peter cancels the rest of the date. He just can’t handle all of his emotions. He’s got to go back and like collect himself and then he resumes the evening portion. Sydney gets the group date rose and scene. From there we move on to the cocktail party before the next Rose Ceremony. And here we have so much drama, but the now-famous #champagnegate as it’s been called all over the internets. And there’s, you know, scuff up with Kelsey and Hannah and over this champagne. And then we have the Rose Ceremony where we eliminate three women can’t even tell you who they basically gloss over that. And then the episode wraps up with the second group date which is a fashion show where the women walk the runway.

Lauren Cash
I still feel like I don’t understand when they don’t end the show with the Rose Ceremony. Do you remember when it used to end with the Rose Ceremony?

Lynn Grogan
I know and I was watching previous episodes and lately, they had like, like previous episodes, they had this like deliberation room where they had all the pictures of the women. And then there was like ominous music and they’re just like picking up a photo and putting it down over and over again. And I was like, I want to recreate that in my life. Like I just want a deliberation room like in my motorhome. Like where would that even fit Lauren but you know, in spirit, I have a deliberation room.

Lauren Cash
I guess they’re just getting better at making decisions.

Lynn Grogan
I think so. I think they should bring it back. They should do a throwback at some point. But that’s my opinion. Are you ready to coach Lauren?

Lauren Cash
I’m so ready to coach.

Lynn Grogan
Let’s do it. Let’s coach.

Welcome to coachable moments, buckle up and sit tight. The coaching will begin in just a moment.

So, this time we’re gonna like theme this. It’s like a theme party but in the worst way. So today’s theme is the victim mentality, which we see a lot on the show. We saw it last time we thought a lot this time, everybody’s playing the blame game. Nobody’s taking responsibility for what they’re doing, what they’re saying how they’re feeling. So they’re blaming other people. They’re blaming elements of the showtime. They’re blaming things like their heart, everybody’s, you know, kind of jumps into this powerless place for themselves. We will cover that a lot in all the coaching moments as we go through.

So I want to dive right in. I’m going to take the first one Lauren, as I mentioned, Peter in the very first scene, this is coachable moment one is covered in glitter talking to Hannah. And you know they’re expressing to each other. So Hannah is the previous Bachelorette Peter’s recent ex-girlfriend, technically And they both express how they have been just like following their hearts. And when they see each other again, of course, all of these things come back up for them again. And we hear various things like Peter saying, I just can’t help how my heart feels. I can’t help feeling what I do. And like a little bit later, he also says, I’m trying to figure out what the hell My heart wants. And I think I’m really scared that I’m not where I need to be right now for this. So throughout this entire scene, we see them going back and forth, back and forth, about what their heart wants, which I think it’s a pretty common phrase for people. Do you hear a lot of people saying that, Lauren?

Lauren Cash
Yeah, I do. Or it’s just like, what feels right.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, what feels right. And by saying that, it just seems like totally fine. But if you really think about what’s going on there, they’re basically saying My heart has an opinion of what I should do right now. And I have no control over that whatsoever. So my heart wants what it wants. And in front of Hannah like seeing her, he’s like, Oh, my heart wants this, right. And I’m sure there were previous scenes where his heart wanted other things. And so here, it’s kind of interesting because if you like insert any other body parts in there is kind of funny, right? Like, I was like playing around with this lots of body parts for like, you know my stomach just wanted the whole cake, or my liver just wanted 12 shots of tequila. So essentially she became a victim of his heart of what he thought his heart was asking him. And what I’d actually think that is probably Peter was just having a feeling. And the way that Lauren and I both coach is that our feelings are not caused by another person. That other human is a circumstance. They’re just a fact. They’re just there until we have a thought about them. And Peter probably had the thought, I don’t know what do you think like maybe she wants me back? Like what else? You think he was maybe like that moment?

Lauren Cash
Or it’s just like she’s hot, like attraction, right? Yeah, yeah. And all of her glittery glory.

Lynn Grogan
Like how could you not?

Lauren Cash
Of course, he has desire, especially if they’ve had history. So he’s thinking about like, Oh my goodness, I want her. She’s so beautiful. Like she’s right here.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. Yeah. And like, he probably hasn’t done the work to change his thoughts about her at all. Like, he probably has that same set of thoughts. And when he was in front of her again, boom, you just like a memory of somebody, but it’s like in person like, Oh, there she is, again, thinking the same way feeling that desire, but not realizing that she’s not the one that’s causing how he feels His thinking about her is.

Lauren Cash
yeah, he thinks that’s because she’s there. And yeah, that’s something he needs to listen to. That there’s this new message from his heart that like he hadn’t known before, and he might miss out if he doesn’t listen to his heart whispers.

Lynn Grogan
I’m just thinking like if your heart had like a notification. With dating 30 women his heart is probably like, like vibrating all the time. It’s just like he’s getting like 50 text messages from Hannah. He’s like this must mean something. Like, she must really be the one if I am getting all these messages from my heart about this. And I think what’s interesting here is just like, basically his solution, and probably this show’s solution is like, oh, if Hannah goes away if the circumstance changes, and we no longer have Hannah, then Peter can focus on all these other women. And there’s like this scene where Peter is just like, I don’t know what to do here. Maybe I just need another woman to fix this. Like, I don’t remember what he says exactly. Do you remember that part? Lauren?

Lauren Cash
I do remember it but I don’t know what he said. Exactly. But he basically just thinks like, Oh, just replace the woman and then all will be fine. I won’t be thinking about Hannah anymore.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, essentially, though, and I mean, the problem There of course he’s dating like, I don’t know, still 20 women at this point. So which one is the band aid? I don’t know.

Lauren Cash
Yeah, who knows. And so he can’t even control like, his processing of his thinking and feeling that he thinks is coming from Hannah being present herself. But it’s really been like he hasn’t processed what he’s been thinking about her the whole time. And he probably isn’t, hasn’t even processes like feelings and emotions from what their history is. So he can’t even like go into dating cleanly. Now.

Lynn Grogan
I like the idea of dating cleanly. And we can see that like, he’s still kind of in that. I don’t know what you say, dirty space.

Lauren Cash
Dirty dating.

Lynn Grogan
We’re gonna coin a term there Lauren, dirty dating. He’s still kind of in that place when he goes back and talks to them and he’s just like, I just can’t handle my heart right now. I have to go and he just misses out on this opportunity to move forward. If he were your client, like, what would you say to him?

Lauren Cash
I would definitely want to work through like, what his beliefs about what had happened with Hannah were and really talk about like Sydney said the past focus versus future focus, which I think you’ve talked about in the last episode. And see, like, do you want to be fully present now with these 30 women? And can we like go through what you’re believing about Hannah and what had happened so that you can then kind of create a conclusion to that part of the story so that then you can move on to where you’re at in this chapter of your life now, so you can be fully present with these women here because there’s no point in being here and dating the women if you’re just going to be still thinking about the past person or not have worked through those feelings. And the other thing I thought of two and you were talking was I feel like in this Episode he ends up kissing a lot of women kind of spontaneously. And I wonder if some of that is being driven from like, well, let’s try this one. Maybe she’s the fix or let’s try this one like trying on different clothes.

Lynn Grogan
Now that you say that I do see that because well, he kissed a lot of people the first episode too, Lauren. But I think you’re right, though is maybe that was driven in the first episode. Yeah, I am going I need to move on. And the way that I move on is by changing my circumstances by finding a new girlfriend. And lucky for me, I have so many here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, people call him out on it. They’re like, I don’t know if he’s ready. I don’t know if he’s ready. And that’s only that like one chunk of it. But it’ll be interesting to see if that carries on. And if they notice it, they’re smart women, they can tell if he’s like being fully present with them or face being kind of fake with them. So I think it’ll be important. If Peter had a life coach, they would have him see like, what his thoughts are and like how he is creating his experience, no matter what, it doesn’t matter if Hannah’s there, it doesn’t matter. a certain group of women are there that like he gets to experience. All right, Peter, he’s got his work cut out for him.

All right, let’s move on to the next one. Do you want to take that?

Lauren Cash
Yeah. And you might have to remind me exactly what happened. But there was drama with Kelsey which there was a lot of drama this episode with Kelsey. And a lot of my notes from watching this episode had to do with Kelsey. There was one moment in particular with McKenna. I think McKenna was taking the time with Peter and am I remembering that right?

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, basically, McKenna just went and pulled Peter to the side but Kelsey thought that there should be some sort of order to things

Lauren Cash
yeah, so we see here like a lot of the time scarcity coming up again with the contestants, you see it. A lot of the episode and both episodes really where they’re really concerned. About the amount of time that they’re going to have with Peter. And they think the amount of time that they have is correlated with their outcome of being able to be the person either initially chosen for a rose on a date, or finally, at the end of the season, being able to be the one that is the one that Peter wants to be with and wins The Bachelor basically.

Lynn Grogan
That sounds so weird.

Lauren Cash
I know.

Lynn Grogan
I’m gonna go win myself a husband, Lauren.

Lauren Cash
yeah, we’re gonna win the final rose. But it seems like they’re thinking, if I just get more time with him, then he’ll have a greater likelihood of choosing me. And so they go around thinking they’re not getting enough time. And they’re looking for all the ways that they’re not having enough time and who’s stealing this time from them. And so Kelsey gets really upset because she thinks that McKenna’s being disrespectful and that it’s a big deal that she’s like Taking this time from her allocated amount, I guess that she thinks she should have. But if Kelsey were in complete confidence that Peter was going to see what Peter needed to see in her and her character in order to choose whether or not she has a rose now or in future episodes or at the end of the show, then she wouldn’t be concerned about the time she could believe that there’s totally enough time and every moment, even if it’s just a small sliver of a moment with him, that she could be fully her and he would see that and then he might even invite her to more time if she ends up being something that he’s interested in that small moment. But instead, she basically sabotages herself with everything she does in this episode. So the time scarcity turns on her and I’m guessing we’ll probably see that she ends up having way less time on the show in the long run because She’s acting from this fear that she’s going to run out of time. And the other thing is that she blames a lot of people for the amount of time that she’s getting. So she thinks that it’s not under her control and that McKenna or whoever else can steal that from her. And she acts like a lot of her emotions too, are being controlled by what other people’s behaviors are like she could be disrespected by somebody, and feel that disrespect because of somebody’s actions. And what you and I teach is that we can’t feel anything from what anyone else does. Or even the time we can’t actually feel something about how much time we have with somebody until we have a thought about it. And so we see that a lot with Kelsey in this part of the season.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah. And I think too, is I think they forget that time is a mental construct. It’s not like a real thing that exists like we as humans have created time. Yeah. And that’s something we forget. And I also wonder in watching this, like, How much time does one need to secure a husband? Is it like an hour? Is it two hours? I don’t know that any of them have ever stopped to question that they just know that, like they need time, and as much as they can get, and if anybody else is having time with them, then they must be stealing out of their own bucket of time. But really, they probably if I had to guess only get like, if they had a group date, maybe they get 10 hours with him. And then collectively, on top of that, maybe three or four, maybe a little bit more. And so it’s just like, well, how much time does it actually take? And like there’s no measure of that out in the world.

Lauren Cash
Right. And that makes me think of, you know, when people talk about knowing the moment that they met somebody, that that person who’s going to be the one like that literally takes zero time to have that knowing in that sense and we also Just decide who we want to be with. It doesn’t take time to make a decision. Although a lot of us in our culture think it takes a lot of time to weigh the pros and cons to decide on things. And, and I thought of something else when you’re talking about the time thing, but no, I forgot it.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, I mean, I relate to the time thing like and maybe this is why I relate to the bachelor cuz I mean, my story of meeting my husband’s pretty wacky. Do you know the storyline? You probably do.

Lauren Cash
I do vaguely, remind us.

Lynn Grogan
So like, you know, I used to be a solo full time RV or I had my little travel trailer and my dog and we were traveling across country. And along the way, I was doing online dates, just for fun, just whatever was it was fascinating. And you know, I went on a date and Arkansas met this guy. And after one date, I was like, Oh, he’s the one and I literally just pulled my trailer on his lawn and like we’ve lived together ever since we got married. Last year, we’ve been together almost five years and so You compare that to The Bachelor I had zero time, right? Like I had an evening, basically a one on one date, and then decided, yes, this is what we’re doing. And we’ve been doing it ever since. And so it’s funny for me to watch this show, because I am always just like, oh, how much time does it take? Clearly for me, it took very little time. I don’t know how long you think it takes for you. But yeah, that worked out for me.

Lauren Cash
Yeah, my boyfriend right now. Like he and I both knew the moment like that we met that we would have something together too. And it didn’t happen right away at that time, because I was dating somebody else and moving states. But it ended up happening later on. And we never even had to have the DTR like, define the relationship conversation once we both were single again, because we knew we just wanted to date already.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, it’s like you marked it on your calendar when we’re both single. Let’s do it. Yeah. And so like, no time requirements that are at all like you already knew it was already done. And then you’re just like, Oh, I just have to go show up and do this. Yeah, I mean, it just I felt like that for me, like if somebody had just been like, oh, but you should take more time, I’d be like, for what? For what reason? So it’s interesting to see how that always plays out on the show, because, like, really doesn’t matter. Not really, if people know.

Lauren Cash
And it goes back to what we were talking about, like Peter blaming his heart for how he’s feeling and what’s going on for him. And he’s like blaming something outside of him. I mean, essentially, His heart is inside of him. But when he’s talking about it, he’s acting like it’s outside of his control is what I mean. And the same thing with this time construct. They’re wanting to just blame the time and not take 100% responsibility, that it’s up to them to feel how they want to feel on the show, and to show up how they want to show up so that Peter can see who they really are. So if they want to get together with him, he gets the sense of who they are. And also, they’re not taking ownership that they get to create what results they want to create. On the show, like if they want the rose, and they’re fully confident that they can get it, then they wouldn’t be blaming time, they would know that it doesn’t even take time or energy or effort. And it’s totally fine if all the other women spend tons of time with him, because they already know they’re getting the rose. So they would come like in this complete certainty and calm, there would be less of the drama, dramaticization. That’s happening, we wouldn’t really want to watch that version of The Bachelor be very boring, very free.

Lynn Grogan
About that, too. It’s just like, yeah, I coach, I also coach a lot of clients on their time scarcity. And it is always interesting, because when you do break it down to like, well, how much time exactly would you need? And it’s just like, well, all the time in the world. And it’s just like, you shouldn’t get more time because you don’t even know how to manage the time that you currently have. And so for a lot of these women that kind of holds true, right? Like, what would they do with more time? They don’t even know because they’re not focused on that part. They’re just focusing and how they’re not getting enough and how they’re being slighted.

Lauren Cash
Yeah. Something I also think is interesting is that they’re so concerned about the time or blaming other women for not getting the time or all these things. They’re not being themselves, but also, they’re not even seeing like, would I be interested in Peter? Like, do I like him? They just already are resigned to the fact that they need to do something, basically just get more time with him, or like show off or perform in order to get a rose that they don’t even like see this as two sides. I’m also seeing if Peter is who I want to be with to.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, yeah, it goes back to that dirty dating. They’re just not clean about it. I’m want to call the episode that dirty dating. Alright, so let’s go on to we’re actually going to combine three and four. We’re going to do a time skip if we’re going to talk about time, like we’re going to talk about champagne gate, which is Kelsey, we have Kelsey again causing drama. She set up this beautiful champagne scene for Peter. It was a champagne bottle she got on her birthday. She was saving it for a year and a half very special to her. She thought it symbolizes love and marriage, which I don’t know about that. But anyway, we’ll go with it. And then what happens dum dum dum Hannah Ann and Peter sit down thinking it’s their champagne and they pop it open. And drama ensues. We hear the pop. And then we see Kelsey is like complete meltdown. And I think what’s so funny in that moment is like, kind of what we’re talking about before like a circumstance is neutral. It’s not good or bad. The circumstance here is “hear Champagne Pop.” And Kelsey is immediately like somebody has wronged me. That’s my champagne. Rage. She goes into rage mode. And all the other girls we see are like, no, it might be neutral. Like we don’t know what happened. We don’t know who’s over there. Right. We see them trying to calm her down. But immediately Kelsey jumps into this belief that somebody has wronged her. Maybe she’s already primed because of McKenna. She’s already in that mindset. And she’s out for blood, right? She’s like, who’s wronged me? She’s just kind of stomping around the house trying to figure it out. And we see her taking that out on Hannah Ann, she’s assuming that the reason she’s feeling this rage is clearly because somebody else has opened her champagne bottle. And how would she feel any other way? She has been wronged. And she wants everybody to know about it. Very fun. Lauren, what did you think about this?

Lauren Cash
The scene was the most fun. I really liked how dramatic like her hearing the Champagne Pop from the other one was, and I like to think too, like if she didn’t have language for like, what that noise was, like if she didn’t think that it was a champagne bottle. If it could have just been like another noise. She wouldn’t even have made that mean like, Oh, it’s a champagne bottle and then oh, it’s probably mine and then oh, somebody is sabotaging me and my moment. And I also love That it’s from Iowa. I just laughed so hard that she’s like this very special champagne from Iowa. Of all places. It’s not like we went to where champagne from again.

Lynn Grogan
I don’t know France maybe

Lauren Cash
France Yeah. But she’s not like I went there and had is really funny. Yeah, but then she like goes into this rage because she’s believing that Hannah Ann had some ill intent and was trying to completely destroy her. And then she ends up destroying herself, by the way that she like goes into this rage fit melts down like it’s the end of the world.

Lynn Grogan
I like to have somebody another person on the show, compared Kelsey to champagne was like, Oh, it’s popped and then exploded everywhere. I was like, Yes, of course she did. She went to zero to sabotage like zero to rage in like two seconds, which I’m guessing comes up in a lot of the rest of her life. And I mean, there’s another thing that we talked about in coaching and in psychology, confirmation bias and that’s our tendency as humans, once we have a belief, all we’re going to see is evidence to prove that belief true. For Kelsey, we see her on this rampage. She’s basically going around to every other girl trying to confirm that Hannah Ann knew and this was a malicious intent. And she wasn’t going to hear anything else. And we see this in the conversations that she has with Hannah Ann basically not hearing Hannah’s just like, what she’s saying it was so cute. I acknowledge your feelings over and over again. And Kelsey is just like, no, you’re a fake bitch, and she’s not gonna hear anything else. She’s like, full on victim mode, I have been wronged. And that’s that, like, that’s all she wants to go with there. I mean, honestly, here, if I had a client in that state, I would go back to the basics. I would just be like, all right, like kind of what you were just saying there with the champagne pop. If this was any other noise. How would you respond to it? Right? How would you act towards this? And just separating out what is fact versus this ginormous story that she’s telling herself that’s creating this rage and trying to pull it away from Like Hannah Ann creating this for herself. She’s like, up and down but mostly rage. And like how can you focus on another person if you’re in rage like, I don’t know about you, Lauren, but when I’m mad, I’m dirty dating is what I’m doing.

Lauren Cash
I’m not grounded, I do not see clearly. I’m like, I am in fight or flight. And anything could set me off just like it was happening for Kelsey. And when I think is interesting, too, is not only is confirmation bias happening, like she’s seeing exactly what she’s already believing in the world, because that’s the lens she’s looking through. But she’s also creating all of this for herself. And she’s not even taking ownership of it. She doesn’t even see that maybe it was really silly of her to put champagne out, like ahead of time, way ahead of time when she wasn’t going to be with Peter. And that of course, if they’re hanging out and they come across champagne, they’re gonna want to open it like she doesn’t even want to look at like how was I already responsible for creating this and she only wants to blame Hannah Ann for probably even how she’s feeling right and the rage she thinks is because of Hannah Ann but not because of what she’s thinking and even that she like, set herself up to feel those things because she was the one that put the champagne where it was.

Lynn Grogan
Oh, yeah, she was like on Red Alert. Essentially, she’s just looking for anybody to wrong her at this point. And it’s interesting too, because I was like, even if Hannah Ann had admitted to it and just said, Oh, yeah, I totally knew that was yours. And I popped it open. She’s still gonna feel rage. Yeah, like maybe she’ll feel like a little bit more righteous about like having it just be like, Oh, yes, I’m right about this now. But there’s really no upside to this attitude that she has this experience she’s creating for herself because even if the person she thinks is a villain admits to it, she’s still going to stay in victim mode. She’s still not going to be focusing on Peter. And she’s still going to be creating the same kind of experience for herself.

Lauren Cash
Yeah, even loved the part where She, like runs away into the room shuts the door. And then Peter tries to come after her. And he’s like asking to talk with her. And she tells him No. So she’s like finally getting the like attention that she thinks she wants. And then she doesn’t even use that. So now she’s actually pushing him away even more and actually, like, visually now with a door

Lynn Grogan
with the door, right? Like, what kind of message does that send? And also, she’s just been complaining about not getting any time with them. So you’re totally right. When she slams that door. It’s like you’re not getting any more time. You just were offered a time when it could have been this kind of vulnerable bonding moment. Yeah, I had a temper tantrum because I thought somebody stole my toys, essentially. But no, I mean, she’s like, it could have been this moment with Peter where he’s just like, Hey, what’s going on buddy? And they bonded. But yeah, she slammed the door, because it was more important for her to be in the rage and blaming Hannah Ann then it was to connect with Peter like she’s totally lost the plot here.

Lauren Cash
Yeah, cuz if she would have believed that That was not Hannah Ann’s intention. And she took 100% ownership that she put the champagne there and that there was no way Hannah Ann could have known that if it wasn’t for them, then she would have been able to be like, Oh, yeah, I shouldn’t have not put it out. Bummer. Oh, well, now I can just tell him what this meant to me. And we can move on and actually have a lot more time together and show up how I want to show up with him. Rather than throwing a temper tantrum and like closing the door,

Lynn Grogan
which I know I may be done once or twice before.

Lauren Cash
I never have

Lynn Grogan
I did it yesterday.

Lauren Cash
I’ve never gotten out of the car and yells and run away.

Lynn Grogan
I’ve never flip somebody off and stomped off. No. We’re perfect humans.

Well, I want to talk about like the flip side of this too, which is at the very end of the episode with Hannah Ann right. Like I think what’s fascinating about this Not only does Kelsey think she’s a victim, Hannah Ann thinks she’s a victim, right? It was so fun. It was just like who’s right here? You can’t both be victims. I guess you can but like, also no upside. Her approach to this is interesting you remember that part?

Lauren Cash
Where she says that Kelsey is being a bully?

Lynn Grogan
Yes. Specifically what I think I wrote it down.

Lauren Cash
Tell us

Lynn Grogan
So Hannah Ann has defined bully for us and she says, “A bully is someone who tear someone else down and rip them apart. And she [Kelsey] accomplished that.”

Lauren Cash
What does that even mean?

Lynn Grogan
I know what does she tearing? Like what does she ripping? Like clothes off? That would be fun. Well, maybe Yeah.

Lauren Cash
Really well, write The Bachelor and let them know.

Lynn Grogan
Like, we need to put your money where your mouth is. Yeah, so Hannah Ann here. I don’t know like if this was conscious for But I mean, in some ways, it almost seemed like, I’m going to get closer to Peter by telling him I’m a victim. She’s basically doing what Peter was trying to do with Kelsey, which is like, hey, I want to come in the bathroom with you while you’re weeping. And basically, Hannah Ann walks through that door. She’s just like, Oh, I was bullied, like, I was a victim here. Can you fix it for me? And she’s looking for Peter. Like instead of owning it, and taking that responsibility that we’ve been talking about and saying, Oh, well, everything that Kelsey did and said, is neutral. Until I have thoughts about it until I told myself a story about this. But really, she’s attributing doing the same thing as Kelsey, in the way that she feels. I don’t know. Probably not rage, but I’m guessing like, confused or sad. What do you think she’s feeling in that moment? Probably something more negative.

Lauren Cash
Yeah, sure. wronged. Yeah, maybe like injustice.

Lynn Grogan
Injustice. Yeah. She’s like saying things like I’ve never been sitting spoken to like that before This is unacceptable. And Peter listens to her, he agrees and says that’s unacceptable. And then he goes, and he talks to Kelsey. And I really think in that moment, Peter truly believed that one of them was going to say that they were wrong. And no.

Lauren Cash
No one owns it at all. And it’s funny because Hannah Ann believes that somebody can rip you apart, which are like, what is that? How can some no one can ever do that? Because people can say as many words as they want to say to us, but until we have a thought about that, or believe them in some way, it can’t do anything to our emotional state, or how we behave in the world.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, and I mean, she’s just making herself powerless. Like here she was actually. I mean, as perceived power position. People are like, she’s always winning. She gets everything Peter seems to like her. And she almost tears herself down by doing this because she’s like, Well wait, I’m weak too pay attention to me. also save me. She’s asking Peter to do the work that she should be doing herself, which is realizing like, hey, it’s okay if somebody is wrong about me. It’s okay that Kelsey is wrong. She’s obviously got her own business going on here. But like something about that causes a lot of tension for her thinking that somebody is wrong about her. And I don’t know what that’s all about.

Lauren Cash
Yeah, it just shows us that she’s not 100% confident in her relationship with Peter like if we thought she was at first like I even thought at the beginning of the whole incident, Hannah Ann did seem to be calm and like told Kelsey you know, I didn’t know that it was yours and like seemed to stay pretty stable. But then with this, like turning it around and trying to get Peters attention and kind of another dirty way, like using it to like get comforting for being this victim. It shows us that she’s not 100% percent confident in who she is because people like Kelsey could Say anything they want to her throughout the entirety of the show, and she’ll know that if she knows who she is for sure, they could be wrong about her. And that’s not a problem because she’s so confident in who she is and that she’s being that person in front of Peter.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, yeah. And I think he probably would have found that appealing. And instead, he’s put in the middle of this situation of who’s right, who’s wrong, who’s the actual victim here, who’s the villain? And we just see him being really like, confused about it. Like, I can’t remember the exact quote from the big leap. But there’s that quote about like, an any argument is just two people running to get the victim role the fastest. It’s something like that. And like, that’s kind of what happened here is that they were just like, Oh, I think victims get the prize. And that is never true on the show.

Lauren Cash
No, it’s not who the person that’s going to be the strongest and in the power position is the one that’s going to opt out of that victim role and take 100% responsibility For everything, including especially their emotions, because what we’ve been talking about is a lot of emotional childhood, which is when we blame things outside of us for how we feel when it’s never anything outside of us. It’s always the way we think about those things that are creating how we feel.

Lynn Grogan
It’ll be interesting to see like how this I saw clips from the next episode, she’s still very upset about it. So she’s obviously holding on to that. And, you know, I mean, in that moment, she could have just been like, oh, Kelsey is just very confused. She’s a very confused woman on the show. And Peter would have been like, okay, carry on, right. Like, Kelsey is obviously the hot mess. But now I think he’s thinking like, okay, there’s drama here. And like she’s causing it, I don’t think it raises either of their chances on the show, because now the next time, if we think about the time that they’re going to have with Peter moving forward, they’re going to be talking about drama with other people other people’s business, instead of their own relationship and they’re not gonna be building their Relationship they’re gonna be talking about all this other stuff. It’s great for us as viewers, not great for them as contestants.

Lauren Cash
Yeah, they just keep distracting themselves with all this drama that has nothing to do with like, do I like Peter? Does Peter like me? Are we building a relationship?

Lynn Grogan
Shall we move on to the last one?

Lauren Cash
Let’s do it.

Lynn Grogan
Fashion show.

Lauren Cash
Fashion Show. Fashion Show at Lunch.

Lynn Grogan
I love that you know that Lauren. Okay, so we have a fashion show. So fashion show at lunch, maybe it was lunch or dinner

Lauren Cash
At Group Date?

Lynn Grogan
All the ladies are supposed to be competing in this fashion show. And Victoria F has this idea about herself, that it’s factual that she’s meek and not confident and shy and is never noticed. And so she thinks this is very true about her. And so when she’s asked to go on stage and present herself, she just has a meltdown and she’s just like, I can’t do this. So through the entire thing, we just see her, just so afraid. And just so terrified to go up on the stage and just like not conveying any sort of confidence. I think what was most interesting about this, like, we could talk about that insecurity on her, but when she gets on stage, it’s like this one at like, even Peter calls it 180. And then suddenly, like, I would not have guessed that in the world, like, would you have guessed she would have walked on stage and just been like, whoo, vava voom. vixen. Like, what’s insane? And so, yeah, so she gets on stage and like the first one, she’s just wearing her short shorts, she walks on the stage. She’s winking. She’s very confident. I thought she was a model and that moment, I was like, maybe she’s modeled before, um, and then the second time she comes up, she is wearing lingerie, like pretty racy, and then she gives Peter a super long kiss. If she was legit, meek, shy and not confident if that was a fact about her. No way could she have taken those actions? So we know how she’s showing up before and then during on stage is because of what she’s thinking about herself. And my guess is that before she’s just thinking, like, I’m just not this type of person, like I’m not going to be noticed. And then she gets on stage. I think Peters like what happened there? like who is this person? And she says, oh, Peter, like I just thought about you. And I was like, Oh, I can finally be noticed. That’s what it is. And her thoughts changed. I don’t think she realized it. I think she thought it was Peter and I think she thought it was the lingerie and all the people watching her. But like her thought change, I want to be noticed. I just thought that was fascinating how we have somebody who could change so much. It’d be interesting. Like, I wish I could watch her reaction to watching that because it was like dramatic how much she changed. What did you think about that part?

Lauren Cash
And it’s not even that she like it did this amazing walk across the stage. The kiss Part Two like that was Wild and I couldn’t believe it. But you made me think about actually like, my previous social anxiety I still have it sometimes but not as much as I used to and what really helped me shift that was changing my thinking, but primarily shifting it to be about other people and not about me. So like when I go to parties or get togethers now, how can I be interested in other people and be of service and all these other things rather than freaking out about? What are people thinking about me? I’m not gonna say anything interesting. I don’t know what to say. I don’t like my outfit. Everyone else looks cooler than I am. I just feel anxiety all the stuff. It reminds me of her cuz she shifted that from thinking about herself and what her like false beliefs about who she is to thinking about Peter and how she wanted to think about him and show up for him on the stage and That changed everything.

Lynn Grogan
Yeah, definitely changed everything for her. I relate to that too, like you’re talking about the social anxiety. But I mean, even as of this week, like our perception of ourselves, sometimes it’s like so different than how it actually. Anyway, here’s my example. I did a group coaching call last week, and I got off the call. And I was like, That was terrible. I didn’t show up I wanted to I was completely unfocused, like, basically the litany of things that like, Victoria has been saying about herself. I was saying to myself, and then because we are going to be reviewing some audio, with our coach team, I had to watch it back and I never watch anything back. And Lauren, it was crazy. I watched it back and I was like, that was really good. I would coach the same way again And it was totally fine. And it was just like, it felt like a 180 It felt like the same thing. I was like, Whoa, who was that person before that was so immediately harsh. And how is it possible that like just re watching it today? I guess I was like out of the thoughts that I was having with that previous Call obviously. But it was crazy to like, witness my brain being so mean to me. So mean in that moment, and I can see how easy it is. If you’re not managing your mind and learning all these tools to stay in that and to stay like she could for the rest of her life believe that she’s shy, meek, not confident, she could just hold on to that the reason that would be huge because she would be thinking the same thoughts over and over again, which would be getting her the same results in life.

Lauren Cash
She’s basing her identity on a feeling state and not on what she believes about herself, like the thoughts that she’s having about herself. Like, anyone can feel meek anyone can feel not confident anyone can feel shy at any moment. But she’s deciding to make that her identity that’s like a longer personality trait or state that is her and we’re not our feelings and we’re not what we do we’re whatever we want to believe about ourselves. So she could pick something totally different, even if sometimes she feels shy because she’s thinking something that’s causing her to feel shy. And one thing that your story made me think about to that she could use is deciding ahead of time, that every group call that you do is the most amazing group call and goes exactly how it’s supposed to go. And she could do that too, with whatever group date or if she ever has to walk the catwalk again, like that, that goes exactly how it’s supposed to go and that it was amazing, even if there are areas of growth that can be evaluated for later.

Lynn Grogan
Hmm, I like how you slipped in some coaching for me. Thank you, Lauren.

Lauren Cash
You’re welcome.

Lynn Grogan
That’s exactly what she could do. She could decide ahead of time. And I mean, she can just decide that she’s competent to right like, you don’t need anything outside of you. You don’t need the perfect outfit. You don’t need external validation. somebody telling you You’re awesome like you get to just decide that you are awesome and nobody can tell you otherwise. And I’m hoping that she will watch this back and just be like I am the badass who walked on the stage kissed Peter wore lingerie. Like who does that I did that I am awesome. We get a glimpse of that. And then she immediately goes back to who she was. And so I’m just kind of hoping she’ll like blossom a little bit more. Thought it was fun for her. So much more fun than seeing her beat herself up all the time, which is what she has been doing.

Lauren Cash
Yeah, after with Peter I was like, come on. We know you like have it in you. Come on.

Lynn Grogan
And Peter sees it too because he gave her the rose. And then she has that she can’t tell herself anymore that she doesn’t win anything because she won the rose with Peter.

Well done, Victoria.

Well, that’s our five moments Lauren.

Lauren Cash
So fun.

Lynn Grogan
So if somebody wanted to find you on the internets, where would they go?

Lauren Cash
They can find me at I always say it wrong. I love it so much my friend Lisa Martinello told me recently because my website or my company name is based in Italian. It’s like from Italian. And she’s Italian. And so she told me I need to accentuate the I so it’s Vivere.co. So I’ll spell that for you. It’s v as in Victor or is in Victoria.V i v e r e dot c o, that’s v i v e. r e. c o.

Lynn Grogan
Beautiful, and I’ll also have a link to Lauren’s website on the show notes for this episode, that’s going to be over at lynngrogan.com/episode2, so you can find that over there. And you should because she’s amazing. She’s an amazing coach. So thank you for coming on the show today. Lauren.

Lauren Cash
Thank you so much for having me. It was such a blast.

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