In Transcript

Lynn Grogan: All right. Welcome to the very first episode of The Bachelor Life Coach podcast. I’m super, super excited. I’m Lynn Grogan. I’m a certified life and weight loss coach and with me today I have Shawn Roney, Shawn do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself?

Shawn Roney: Yeah. Hi, I am Shaun Roney, thank you so much for having me, Lynn. I’m super excited about this. I’m a certified ADHD coach and so what that means is I work with people who have ADHD tendencies is how I refer to it. So things that they see, they don’t have to be diagnosed in order to be diagnosed for ADHD, you do actually need to see a physician and they will diagnose you. But we all have tendencies to some extent. And so I coach around some of those tendencies. We can talk about that a little bit more as we go on.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah, totally. And that’s what I thought was like interesting to have you on the show because you are a super fan, but you’re also a life coach. And so it was interesting to get your perspective on this because I know nothing about ADHD. I know a little bit more cause I did some research but up until now I’m like, well I don’t know anything about this. So tell me about like you watching The Bachelor, cause you had kind of a fun thing to say about your husband.

Shawn Roney: Yeah. So actually he started watching The Bachelor first. I was not a fan because of all the drama. I was just like, Oh, this is ridiculous. But it was the one time we had to like sit on the couch together and kind of connect through a shared activity. He likes to watch TV. I don’t. And so we started watching and as seasons went on I totally got into it. We’ve not missed a season, we’ve watched them all.

Lynn Grogan: That’s amazing. So I’m really jealous of that because ABC has made it very, very hard for people to watch previous episodes. So I am a newer fan, but like you and your husband, we got hooked right away. And my husband’s also into it too, just like now. I’m like, I couldn’t imagine not watching it. So super fun. So I want to, let’s see, why don’t we just like go ahead and dive right in and then we’ll see what happens. I thought we could start with a brief show recap for anybody who hasn’t watched it or just need some memory. And Shawn, feel free to dive in as I go through this. All right, so this is the first episode we have The Bachelor Peter Weber and 30 women. And so, you know, in true bachelor fashion everybody comes in kind of ridiculous. What was your favorite person coming in?

Shawn Roney: Oh my gosh. Tricky.

Lynn Grogan: I didn’t prep you with this one.

Shawn Roney: It’s like on the spot. And what’s funny is what comes to mind are my least favorite.

Lynn Grogan: You can go with it!

Shawn Roney: Well, the one that sticks in my mind, and maybe it was more of an observation, was when they said someone was flying in and Peter looked super intrigued, like excited almost. Wow. If there’s someone like pilot, like, you know,

Lynn Grogan: He’s like, I’m going to lose my mind.

Shawn Roney: Yeah. Like taxiing a plane in here. I’m going to lose my mind. I think you said that. And then she came up on the pedal plane and you saw his face like womp wah or that was my favorite moment.

Lynn Grogan: I’d also kind of love the moment where Hannah came in cause I was just like, okay, let’s kick off the drama. All the ladies in the house got riled up and you know, there’s still that mystery there. We don’t know why she keeps showing up. And so at the very tail end of the entrances, we have Hannah Brown showing up just to return a little trinket. What was that? Like his wings or something? His pendant?

Shawn Roney: Yeah, I think it was his wings.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. And then after that, we have Peter going into the house and then we have these one on one times right before the Rose ceremony. And I mean right away, like Hannah Ann is stirring things up. She’s like interrupting. Like we kind of expect this at this point, right? Like I don’t know why it’s a surprise to the people in the house.

Shawn Roney: I know, right? If you’ve watched the show clearly, if you’ve applied to be on it, you know that you’re in for a roller coaster. Yeah. So I always think that’s a little funny tongue in cheek that they’re so shocked.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. They’re always so shocked. Yeah. And so we have Hannah Ann interrupting three times and we have the first elimination. He eliminates eight women, including all three flight attendants, which I thought was kind of interesting. I don’t know if that was just like his thing. He’s like, I just don’t date flight attendants. After that, we have the first group date where the women have some obstacle courses that are flight-related. And then we, of course, we have Kelley who cheats by just going straight to the finish line, good for her and she gets the first group date rows. Then we have Madison doing the first one on one date. Have they ever, so she met his entire family, like have they ever done that before? That you know of?

Shawn Roney: They have, but it seems really, it seemed really early in the season, literally first episode to take someone to meet the family. I feel like it’s usually done a little bit later in the season when they really have a feeling for who they want to keep around and how that person would click. So having it so early, I almost thought, well, of course, she’s going to get a Rose. Like how could I send her his after meeting, you know, his family and such a personal occasion?

Lynn Grogan: Yeah, it’s interesting. I felt like that was the least dramatic part of the premiere when I rewatched, I was like, Oh I can skip that part. They had like this wholesome moment and then we can go, right like yeah. So, of course, she gets the rose at the end. And then the last part we have is that second group date, which is hosted by Hannah Brown again, previous bachelorette, previous girlfriend of Peter’s, and you know, everybody freaks out again. And then we have a cliffhanger. We don’t know what happens. What do you think’s going to happen?

Shawn Roney: Oh, I mean I think she’s there because she’s going to bring interest in drama for sure. So I think part of it is production on the show’s part. I do think, you know, she’s being real as far as with her emotions. And I think the show is really good and I’m not sure how they do it, but in my mind, I picture like sleepless nights, like a teeny bit of sleep and a lot of alcohol

Lynn Grogan: And none of them I know and none of them look tired. Like at that Rose ceremony, they’re all like bright-eyed and I was like, did they get like a power nap? Do they like have some secret to the universe that we don’t have? I would be like curled up in the corner sleeping by that point. I fall asleep at like 8:00 PM every day. So I know. I was actually like joking that I think the difference between a life coach and a producer on the show is that like a life coach is like, Oh, you don’t have to believe all of your thoughts and the producers is like you should believe every thought and here are a few more.

Shawn Roney: Yes, let me spoon-feed you some and then I’ll see all the emotions just like fall out.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah, totally. They’re talking to producers, right? When they’re in their little one-on-one, like the in the moments, and I was like, Oh man, they could use a life coach. But if they did, I’m like, I don’t think a life coach could ever be on this show because they would be too good at managing their mind and there wouldn’t be drama.

Shawn Roney: Right. I’ve thought about that before in the past for sure. Like, Oh, they could so use a life coach. I’m like, no. But then the show would actually probably fall flat. Like it would not get, it wouldn’t have those many moments of drama.

Lynn Grogan: It wouldn’t have the drama at all. So, but I mean, obviously, neither of us could be on the show. We’re married and too old. We’re not 23 anymore, Shawn. It’s true.

Shawn Roney: It’s true. Back in the day, I mean, to get all that travel, that’s the benefit. That’s the bonus to me. And like if you make it close to the end, then you go all those amazing places and you’re willing to put up with all the drama. This ship has sailed.

Lynn Grogan: All right, let’s coach. Do you want, are you ready?

Shawn Roney: Yeah. Let’s talk about it.

Lynn Grogan: So we’re going to do five coachable moments from the show. What I love about this is that like we’ve been sharing this group doc for this week and I went in there and you had like the most amazing moments picked out and I was just like, yes, let’s go. So do you want to talk about the first one? What happened? And like what you think about it.

Shawn Roney: Yeah. So fun. So basically it was between Shiann and Hannah Ann and what happened is Hannah Ann have three opportunities to talk to Peter. She pulled him aside, interrupted, whatever you want to call it, three times and have time with him. And Shiann got really upset about that because she did not feel it was fair. So she actually says, I feel really irked. And then she takes action, she goes and she, she finds Hannah Ann and she decides to have a sit-down talk with her. And what was so interesting, I was thinking, it’s like the movie, right where you see someone don’t go in there, don’t go in there. And it’s going to be bad. I was literally thinking, do not go talk to Shiann right now because you’re feeling or that’s not what this is about. You’re not here to make friends. You’re here to like find the love of your life.

Lynn Grogan: I know. I was like nothing good can come of this girl. Like I don’t know what the actual show rules are, but I do know that like have you watched the show? Unreal?

Shawn Roney: Oh it’s been a while. I want to say I’ve seen it once or twice.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. It’s just like a mock of reality shows like The Bachelor, but their one rule is sluts, get cut. I’m pretty sure that’s the rule on The Bachelor too and anything else goes. And so thinking about this moment, it’s like Hannah Ann you know what? It’s almost like, it’s like when you go to the grocery store and there’s like a queue to the back of the store and then they opened another like third grocery aisle and then everybody’s just like, okay, I want to get my groceries paid for and leave, but maybe I should wait for the people in front of me in line. I think that’s kinda what this is. And Hannah Ann’s like, no, I want my groceries. I want Peter. So anyway, what do you think it is? It’s like, you know, it’s like humans, it’s humans. Just go get your groceries. So like what do you think was going on here?

Shawn Roney: I think that there just wasn’t clarity around why Shiann was even like what she wanted to get out of that conversation, why she even wanted to have it. I think for a moment it’s like she was in the tumble dryer and then got thrown out. That’s what it felt like after their conversation. Like she got all spun around and confused with why they even talked. I think she wanted to like set the record straight and just put it all out there. And have Hannah Ann like hear her and kind of like resist it and fight back so that Shiann can prove, you know, like see this is what you’re doing and instead Hannah Ann was like, yeah, I want you to have your time with them. Go get it, girl. And she just was like, this is not the script I had in mind.

Lynn Grogan: No, totally. And I think she wanted Hannah and to like acknowledge like I did something wrong and it wasn’t going to happen, right. Hannah Ann was just like, no, I’m not here to sit and drink wine and sit on this couch. I’m here to go talk to Peter and get my husband. And I think Shiann was just like going into it going, well, if she says that I can feel better about this whole situation. And that didn’t happen. Right? Hannah Ann was never going to do that.

Shawn Roney: Hannah Ann actually is coming across as very confident and clear in her intention for being there and her thoughts. Now I’m sure it’s going to change and true bachelor fashion. So what do you say is that consistent throughout the whole, but right now she seems really clear on why she’s there and Shiann I want to say like the thoughts that she has are keeping her a little more timid, less confident. She seems to be coming from the mindset or the place of like, let’s just all get along. Yes, I want Peter and I want to stay, but I also like want to be friends with everybody. We all like need to be nice and play by the rules.

Lynn Grogan: Right. I think she forgot very black and white. I think she forgot what show she was on. But yeah, very black and white thinking. Right? Like, okay, if we could all just follow these rules that I have in my brain, then everything’s going to go swimmingly and we see that that just doesn’t happen. Like what do you think would most help Shiann moving forward?

Shawn Roney: I think really just to stop and consider what it is that she really wants and why she’s on the show and just remember that first and foremost. I feel like with the black and white thinking she’s thinking it’s all or nothing, so you’re either going to follow the rules. I think she has a belief that when you follow the rules, things work out. Like that’s how you’re supposed to play a game to win. Like if you don’t follow the rules, is it really a win? I think she has a lot of beliefs around that and in order to move forward, I think she’s going to have to consider what might this look like that’s different than what I’m doing right now.

Lynn Grogan: Totally. Yeah. And I think too she’s going to have to decide which rules to follow and which ones not to and those might be her like own personal rules for herself. Right? I might have to do something that I deem unkind in order to get what I want and making those decisions and like liking them. I think that might be like, one of the hardest parts, and I’ve witnessed this on other seasons too, is like people are like maybe doing things that are outside of their comfort zones in terms of almost morals and values. I think, would you agree with that?

Shawn Roney: Totally. Like that voice in her head, that’s telling her, Oh, this might seem unkind as you just said. Or you know, what will people think if I come across as unkind or pushy? Like all of those she really has to examine and just the reason why, why she’s doing what she’s doing.

Lynn Grogan: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So it was like such an interesting moment too because usually at this point the show will paint the stealer as a villain and I really don’t think they went there. Right. I think they’re more promoting like, Hey, Peter likes a girl that takes risks and is bold. And she went there and she risked Hannah Ann risked rejection from Peter. He could have been just like, no way. This is too much. And I see how all the other girls in the house are and like resenting you, but he doesn’t, he doesn’t go down that route. He’s just like, yeah. So I think it was just like an interesting move on Hannah Ann’s part like her thought clearly going into this is I’m going to do whatever it takes to get Peter.

Shawn Roney: Yeah. And I think paired with like knowing who you are. So I feel like part of Shiann’s struggle is she’s not really clear on who she wants to be. I think she knows who she has been and now she’s in a situation where she’s really going to have to look at that quickly and come up to speed with who does she want to be now and going forward Hannah Ann seems pretty clear on who she is.

Lynn Grogan: Totally. Yeah. And I think it’ll be interesting. I hope Shiann stays on the show long enough to see that because I feel like it’s inevitable that you have to go through some sort of personal transformation on the show if you stay like you have to open up and be vulnerable to get the roads right. Like that’s the prize for being vulnerable on the show. So good. Well, let’s move on to the second moment. Oh, this is a good one. Do you want to talk about this one too?

Shawn Roney: Okay. Yeah. So this was Victoria.

Lynn Grogan: Victoria F.

Shaun Roney: Victoria F, excuse me. There’s so many. Victoria’s, there’s so many. I think she has a lot of thoughts in her mind and she says that out loud. She’s like, there’s so many pretty girls. I’m just nervous. I feel like I’m falling behind. Like all of the little out clips of her are of her talking to herself really nervously. So in this, in this moment, she has some time with Peter and it’s a limited time, right? It’s first, they don’t have a ton of time and she starts to talk to him and says, you know, I just, I’m so embarrassed about my entrance and the one-liner, do you remember the one-liner? And he tries to like play it off and be like, Oh yeah, totally. That was good. And then she’s like, was it too much? And then he’s all, wait a minute, remind me of what the one-liner was. And so she says it again and I’m just going to read it.

Lynn Grogan: Oh my gosh. Can you actually read it without like going into Victoria mode?

Shawn Roney: I don’t know. Maybe. She’s so uncomfortable. She’s kind of swerving out of her skin. And she says, the one-liner that she said was the one thing I want you to know about me is that I have a very dry sense of humor, but that’s the only thing that’s dry about me. Bump bah.

Lynn Grogan: Bomp bah.

Shawn Roney: That’s the one thing she wants him to know about her. Right. In hindsight, I was thinking this is like Victoria was sitting around with maybe some of her girls and they were talking about great ideas for her as she’s coming out of the limo, how to make an impression and one of them maybe more bold girls in the group said, I know what you should say, and then she went with it.

Lynn Grogan: Totally without actually owning it. Like we can tell she doesn’t own it. She’s just like, she wants to make an impression. She’s so afraid that she’s going to be forgotten that she does something, that she would rather have him forget at the end of the day. Like she’s like, she probably watched that back and was like, I can’t believe I said that. Right. Mortified. Yeah, it was hard not to laugh during that moment.

Shawn Roney: Just the spiral downward. Not only did she say it and then not move on, but she said it and spun and said it again and reminded him and drew more attention to it and was just so uncomfortable with it the whole time.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. And when she finally got interrupted and somebody came to steal Peter, there was almost like this moment of relief like, Oh thank God we can get out of this moment.

Shawn Roney: It just all stopped and then she flashes back to it though. She’s like, so this is the one thing he’s gonna like base his decision on whether I’m his future wife or not.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah, it was perfect. So you had said something like in your notes about past focus, she’s drawing him back to this past moment instead of trying to build this relationship forward. I think it’s so interesting like how we do this. This is just like, okay, let’s tell you about this thing that I’m freaked out about that I wish he would forget, but yet I’m going to keep pulling you back to it. What do you think that’s all about?

Shawn Roney: I think just maybe underlying it. Just a sense of general not-enoughness and I think her brain just started to ruminate on, I think it’s what our brains do. Kind of goes back to things that we wish we would have done differently and try to like fix it or redo it. We all know those moments where you know, it’s like an hour after something happened and you come up with this response, you’re like, I wish I would said that that was good.

Lynn Grogan: And then she’s just like, I think this is a good line. I should try it again. And it doesn’t work out very well. I think her identity is around being the pretty girl in the room. Her confidence comes from being physically beautiful and knowing that she is, she’s a very beautiful woman and then she gets into this house and it’s just like, wait, I can’t believe that anymore. But now what? Yeah, right. We don’t go anywhere with it. It’s just kind of falls flat.

Shawn Roney: No, what we see is kind of the borrowed line that she tried on for size that didn’t work out because it just made her thoughts about what she said spiral her down into more insecurity.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. What do you think would help her moving forward? Is there help for her?

Shawn Roney: There’s help for everybody. I mean honestly, I feel like with Victoria just kind of slowing down awareness, right, is the first thing. So just noticing all of the things she’s thinking and honestly I feel like with Victoria, what might help is just the simple four, seven, eight breathing technique.

Lynn Grogan: I don’t know what that is.

Shawn Roney: So it’s like kind of borrowed from yoga. Yeah, but it’s you breathe in slowly for four counts. You hold your breath for eight counts and then you exhale slowly for eight counts or seven, eight. A strategy I do with some of my clients, the start of a session, honestly it just kind of centers you and calms your nervous system. So I feel like she could actually do something like that physical and then like to decide how she wants to go into the situation. Next time I’m with Peter, like who do I want to be? What do I want to say?

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. It’ll be interesting to see if she brings up this line again. My guess is she will not think.

Shawn Roney: She’s learned her lesson.

Lynn Grogan: She’s learned her lesson and you’re right. It will be interesting to see who she decides to show up as the next time. I have high hopes for Shiann before her, but I don’t know about Victoria. I think she could use a life coach. Yeah.

Shawn Roney: Well and I think Victoria it’s just going to take time. Right? So some of it is, she has to get really comfortable with who she is and who she wants to be and I don’t know that there’s enough time in the span of this season for her to figure all that out. I think it’ll be a good jumping off like diving board for her.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah, like she’ll watch this after the show. She sat around with her friends on Monday night. Probably had a word or two to the friend that gave her that line in the first place. Exactly. Move on. All right, so next we have kind of still in the aftermath of Hannah Ann. We have Mykenna and she’s reflecting on how Hannah Ann has won the first impression rose. She’s gotten the first impression Rose and we see her sitting by herself. She knocks back her glass of wine and she says, “To not get the Rose made me question a lot of things. I put myself out there for a second and she Hannah Ann stole him more than twice. She had the balls, she did it. And I don’t know why I didn’t.” I love that moment. Here’s this girl that’s like, I know I have this in me. I have these balls. I thought I had balls, but she, Hannah Ann has balls. So it’s like such a fun moment to see that. And it’s something you picked up on too. What do you think? Yeah. What do you think that that moment’s all about?

Shawn Roney: What I loved about that moment is I feel like we see two stages, like in this little compact moment. So we see awareness. She knocks back the wine and then she’s like, wow, she went after it like she did and I didn’t. So there’s awareness, but then there’s also curiosity because she ends it with a question she says, and I wonder why I didn’t. I feel like she’s kind of moving through the first phases of change.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah, she’s being aware. Yeah. Yeah. She’s seeing what she didn’t do. She saw what she did do and then she saw what she didn’t do in that very short span of time. She’s like, if she could watch her thoughts, it would just be like, I know I can do this differently. I can show up in a way to get the next Rose. I’m guessing she identifies as being somebody who’s a little bit competitive?

Shawn Roney: I would think so, yeah. She’s engaged for sure. Whereas you know, Victoria F the difference I think is Victoria F is still kind of fluttering around with like this nervous, frantic energy.

Lynn Grogan: Victoria is probably, her thoughts are probably something like I’m not going to be noticed. And Mykenna’s like, how can I be noticed? Right. She’s thinking like I’m going to be noticed. I don’t know how yet, but here I have some evidence here of what works.

Shawn Roney: Yeah. Yeah. I think when she said it made me question a lot of things, the only other note I had was that I think she’s questioning her, her past beliefs, how she’s been in the world up until now. Like what being bold means. What do you think? Oh, sorry. I don’t know, maybe she hasn’t done that in the past. And like does that still serve her? Is there a way she can be different and not so maybe judgy about how she felt in the past about bold people?

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. Well, and it’s interesting cause we see that contrast with Shiann. Shiann’s solution to that was to confront Hannah Ann right to feel better. And we see that Mykenna doesn’t go that route. She’s not like, you know what Hannah Ann’s not the problem actually. And Hannah Ann is the solution like what Hannah Ann did is the solution and she took that information. Like it was such a winning moment for me cause I’m like, you can just see that glimmer of I’m going to get you like, I’m going to figure this out. Like I kinda like it. I kinda like it. I’m can’t, I’m like kind of excited to see where she goes in the season to see what her, her journey is like. All right.

Shawn Roney: I feel like that happens in coaching actually. You can sense when someone’s on the brink of being ready for coaching. As coaches, we do consultations to talk to people and help find out if they’re ready to move into coaching. And so I feel like that’s what I saw in that moment too. I was like, Ooh. She’s like so ready for a coach. Like she would do so great with some outside perspective. She’s just ready.

Lynn Grogan: She is ready. Yeah, you’re right. Because she’s not going into blame mode. She’s like taking full responsibility for how she wants her journey to be on the season. And I think she’s almost one of the first people like we see Hannah Ann and already doing it and actions. But that like almost seemed premeditated to me. My guess is Hannah Ann came in, she’s like, I’m going to steal him as many times as it takes and I’m going to give him this painting. Right. And then you see Mykenna like maybe she had some strategy, but now she’s like, Oh, I become the next version of myself. Right. Like I’m going to turn up the volume a little bit, which is so cool to see. Yeah, totally. She’s ready. She’s ready for coaching. All right. What do we got next? Do you want to take this next one?

Shawn Roney: Oh, right, so this is the scene where there’s a group date and they are competing on the trikes and it’s Hannah Ann and Kelley, Oh no sorry. It’s Kelley and Tammy.

Lynn Grogan: Tammy who I love.

Shawn Roney: Yeah. Tammy’s got some boldness in her. Anyways, Kelley. So they’re on this obstacle course. They go through all these different sections and the final section is they have to jump on trikes and race this little obstacle course to the finish line. Kelley decides to just like go straight through without following the cones and she wins. And Tammy is so upset because she cheated. Like that’s all you hear for the next 10 minutes is she cheated. Oh my gosh, she cheated. You know, she cheated and I’m like, what is cheated? What is cheating anyway?

Lynn Grogan: I know. Well, and I wondering like, it’s almost like you have to get caught to have cheated almost. Right. And the producers clearly were like, we want to see where this goes on this date. Why do you think it was so important to Tammy that people acknowledge that Kelley cheated?

Shawn Roney: I think really it’s just because it didn’t work out the way that she wanted it to. Like had it been what you just said, the producers nixed it and said, Oh no, that’s not what we said to do. So it automatically goes to Tammy and they could have done that just to create more drama. Yeah. But I think Tammy would have been fine. So I think that behavior if she had done it and the producer, it had gone Tammy’s way, there would’ve been no problem. But I think because it didn’t work out for her, she wanted to have everyone kind of come around her and agree on a sense of rightness. Like what’s right and what’s wrong.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. She definitely had this idea. Oh totally. And we don’t see that happen. Like the producers obviously were on board. And so this whole idea of right and wrong as it applies to The Bachelors. Right? Like there’s no sense of that. Yeah. And it’s just suddenly like, I think they went into it thinking like, Oh, there’s going to be some very clear rules. At least for a while, I’ve watched the show, I know how it goes. Right? And then we see like from the get-go, the rules don’t actually fully apply in the same way. And then I think that like just strips them a little bit of their sense of control, right? They’re like if I know the rules if I follow the rules, I can stay sane and calm on the show and then it doesn’t happen. What are the rules?

Shawn Roney: As I say, the irony of it is that they’re on a show called The Bachelor where they’re competing to meet their future potential husband in eight weeks. Like what rules is that following? It’s totally not a typical situation.

Lynn Grogan: It’s not a typical situation. And if you think about it like eight weeks is not that long. So Kelley’s just like, well, the most efficient way is to just ride right over there. I mean, he’s right there, I’m going to go do this. Right. And I think, you know Kelley is kind of similar to Hannah Ann where she’s just thinking I’m going to do whatever it takes to get him and I think she has her boost of confidence because she did meet Peter before the show and so she’s thinking like, Oh the rules don’t really apply to me anyway because I already had this in with him. And then she mentioned something about the selfish mindset. She has kind of a selfish mindset here and like I’m curious about like what that means cause I relate to that. I was like, I have a selfish mindset. Like I want things to work out for me. And one could argue kind of Tammy does too. She wanted things to work out for her too. Like which would have meant by default. It didn’t work out for anybody else.

Shawn Roney: Yeah, yeah. Right. I know what is, what is a selfish mindset. Yeah, I get that. Kelley is saying basically she’s putting herself before the other girls, but you could also argue that she’s putting Peter before anybody. You know the girls that don’t do whatever it takes to end up on the one on one date with him are not focused on him. They’re focused solely on themselves, so not him and building the relationship, but they’re focused just on their status with the group. The girls in the house.

Lynn Grogan: That’s true. Which almost seems more selfish, right, because if they were actually focused on Peter, they too would have scurried to the finish line. Yeah, I actually didn’t think about it that way. It’s just like, because it’s not a show like Survivor where group dynamics actually matter. If somebody is really terrible, like I’m, I don’t know. I think about Luke P from The Bachelorette where everybody really, really hated him. You know, it’s still to actually didn’t matter to Hannah and like some seasons that does matter to the people, but sometimes it really doesn’t. And my guess is that Peter’s just going to go with his heart, heart on the sleeve and he’s not really going to care if the rest of the girls in the house have a stink about somebody, you know, like not playing fair. Yeah. What do you think, like what do you think would help the girls the most? Right. Like, well, let’s think about Tammy, right? She’s thinking more about fairness. She’s not focused on Peter. She’s not focused on the result that she wants.

Shawn Roney: Yeah, I think fairness is an interesting topic. So I think when we want things or expect things to be fair, it puts it completely out of our control. It means we want things kind of doled out to us in an even fashion. Everybody gets the same thing. And I think focusing on that is like gonna drive Tammy away from what she ultimately wants. I think, I mean, I struggled with this too. I used to be a huge, you know, supporter of fairness and now it’s more like personal equality, equality and it starts from within. So I want to feel a sense of justice and a sense of equality and when I feel those things, I’m going to show up in a way that creates more justice and equality in the world. Versus Tammy, she’s looking for fairness from other people. It’s not coming and so she’s actually not contributing in a positive way to create more of it for herself either.

Lynn Grogan: She’s like abdicating all responsibility then to the rules of the show. She’s like, if the producers could just come up with some rules so that I can win, then I can win. Not seeing that do you like your reasons for following whatever rules you think are there now? I’m wondering like if she will take a step back and be like, Oh, do I like the rules? Do I want to play by the rules? Do I kind of want to like skip over them like these other girls? Because like there’s no penalty so far. Neither of them have been rejected, you know? Right. And so obviously Peter kind of likes it. I mean he probably likes to be bossed around a little bit too, right? Like, he probably likes it a little bit. He likes a bold girl. He loves a little pushback, you know, which brings us to probably the ultimate rule-breaker, which you know at the end is going to be Hannah. Right? Like, cause when we get to the second group date, which is hosted by Hannah and she has gotten up on stage to tell the windmill story. Actually we have gotten this far into the podcast and haven’t mentioned the windmill, maybe we don’t have to mention it all the rest of the series. Right. She tells about them having sex four times. And then she tells the girls like, Hey, you all are going to get up on stage and Peter is too and you’re going to talk about sex. Great. Okay. The girls are like, okay, Hannah’s here, whatever. She’s been here before. But then we see some behind the scenes where I thought we got some real emotion from Peter and Hannah. Like I think he still has a thing for her. I think she still has a thing for him, but he invites her to follow the rules. Like he’s like, Hey, do you want to join the house? Do you want to like jump in here and be a part of this official thing? And then we see her like pause and just be like, what does she have to lose at this point?

Shawn Roney: I know I can’t yet tell like how much of it is authentic, how much of it is show production? I thought with Peter, what was interesting is he was like, I’m still, I’m totally ready to do this. I’m over Hannah. I did love her and I, I moved past that and then all of a sudden at the end it’s like, well, you know, maybe he was over her when he thought she was over him, but now that he knows that she’s not, he’s kind of like two feet kind of dangling in the water.

Lynn Grogan: Totally. Yeah. And I, I, in that moment I was like, I don’t know if she can come back to this show because you see this side of him that’s kind of weaker. Like he’s coming from a kind of jilted lover who was rejected and is now like there could be a chance. Right. And like in that moment, you know, he’s forgotten about all of the other women in the other room. He’s just like, but maybe this woman I loved will talk me back finally.

Shawn Roney: For sure. I did actually, I almost forgot about all the other women. I was like, wait, what’s going to happen is, is he gonna say, you know, is he going to propose?

Lynn Grogan: I don’t know. I was like, well maybe this is the part where The Bachelor like actually this is the only episode because Peter and Hannah get together. It’s totally fine.

Shawn Roney: Shortest season ever.

Lynn Grogan: Shortest season ever. And I think like what I kind of love about the ending of this is just the complete meltdown because it’s just like now collectively we see an entire group of women who are like, if Hannah comes back, I’m either marching out or I’m going to complain and complain. Right? Like you had an awesome note here where it’s just basically like, okay, that means we’re not enough. If we need to bring on another woman and it happens to be the woman. So, therefore, there is no competition here. It’s Hannah and everybody else and Hannah’s probably gonna win. Like we suddenly see this group of women who were so confident going into this, just insecure thinking, I’m not enough. What else do you think they’re thinking at that moment?

Shawn Roney: I mean, can I trust him? Was he lying when he said he was over her? Is he really not over her? She has like eight weeks already on the books with him. He knows her so much better. I’m sure they’re thinking so many things.

Lynn Grogan: I think for the first time they’re like, I don’t know if this bachelor’s here for the right reasons. Right. Yeah. And I don’t know, like kind of like from a show perspective, I’m like, you can’t have two stars on this show. You have Peter. For that reason, I don’t think she’s coming back. But I would love for her to come back because there would be very many coaching moments like there already were she’s just like, she’s just dove right back into it. And like the tears.

Shawn Roney: I think he’s going to have to take a bold stance to like win back the, you know, the affection of the women and reassure them. I don’t think she’s coming back either. I think it’s a set up a bit and he’s going to have to kind of make a strong decision like you said so that he’s not seen as kind of that a little bit more feeble and meak.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. He did come across as that and he looked like he was just ready to go back if she would say yes, he’d be like, I’d be off the show, whatever. Right. but contract would probably dictate he couldn’t do that, but I think in that moment he would have been like, yeah, I got a ring. Like, let me go get a ring from the, from the closet. Right. So it’d be interesting to see how they bounce back from this. Right. I think we have Hannah Ann on that date who’s already feeling confident. So it’ll be interesting to see if she stays as confident throughout this episode. It will be interesting to see any, anybody quits thinking like, well if I can’t control the show, the only thing I have control over is quitting. Like what that mindset is all about and they’re always just going to have to step up their game if Hannah did come back. They would have to dig deep, become that person that just like can keep showing up for Peter no matter who else is there. Who else is in the house.

Shawn Roney: It’s true. I think in that case, if she does come back, the girls that already have a strong, confident mindset are going to have a little bit of the upper hand because Hannah has already been through it. She’s like lost and won and lost again and all publicly on TV. She has nothing left to lose, so if she did come back. There’s no fear for her. Right. A lot of these other girls are really still scared or nervous about what they look like on TV and what they look like in the house. And Hannah’s like, I’ve looked like a crazy person. I have lost it multiple times. I’m always crying. My mascara is always running.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah. You know what, I’m going to get Peter. He already knows. Right? Like she’s already been to the end with him. Yeah. I’m curious to see how time scarcity would come up there because there’s already so many of them even this first episode that think they’re behind. They’re looking around, which there’s no benefit to thinking you’re behind in The Bachelor. Right. Cause you’re only going to stay behind if you have that kind of mindset. And so by comparison, I, it’ll be interesting to see what they do with all that.

Shawn Roney: Yeah. I feel like they’d have to get strategic and like limit the time that Hannah participates or maybe not, you know, maybe, maybe you could allow her back, but put her in with the roses. I don’t know how they’re going to do it.

Lynn Grogan: I don’t know how. Yeah. I don’t know how they’re going to do it. I don’t think it’s going to be boring. Never. Never is. So that’s five moments, right? Like five coachable moments. We got these fine ladies. I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen. It’s so funny cause like I’m thinking back to previous seasons, I was like, Oh, the first episode there’s not much to coach on. There was a lot to coach on here in this episode and it’s only going to get more exciting. Is there any other things from that that you wanted to bring up?

Shawn Roney: Yeah, I second what you just said. It is only going to get more exciting. I was a little worried as well about the first episode. I was like, Oh right, three hours. The girls all come off the limo. Can we coach on stuff? But there are definitely things out there. Yeah.

Lynn Grogan: Yeah, there totally is. It’s only going to get better. So let’s wrap this up here. If somebody wanted to find you on the internet, where would they go, Shawn?

Lynn Grogan: Yeah, they can go to my website. It’s

Lynn Grogan: Definitely look up Shawn. I will have a link to her website in the show notes at You can find all of her details over there and thank you, Shawn, for coming on the show today.

Shawn Roney: Thank you for having me. So much fun.